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Hey Robb, have you ever been mistaken for someone else?

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Well, you know, when I was younger, people used to say I looked like Ethan Hawke.

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So did it lead to you being chased by criminals?

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No, but I did end up in the movie Dead Poets Society.

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[laughs]

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[upbeat music]

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Hey, hello, and welcome to Indie Film Lodge, a podcast about the nuts and bolts of independent filmmaking from the bottom up.

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I am Matt Jackson.

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And I'm Robb Padgett, and today we're talking about resourcefulness,

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because sometimes when you have to make do with what you have, you have to get creative to get the most out of it.

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Today's guests are Alberto Nunes and Caleb Keller, who made the terrific Last Reckoning.

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Hey fellas.

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Hey guys.

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Thanks for having us.

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I can't wait to talk about this movie because I feel like it really fits in with the vibe that we are always advocating on this show.

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But in case somebody hasn't seen Last Reckoning, those poor souls,

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Can you please tell me what it's all about?

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So Last Reckoning is about a guy named Dan who used to be a getaway driver for criminals.

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And now he's on parole trying to get his life back together.

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When someone accidentally puts a bag of cash in his car and then it gets towed.

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So now he's responsible for getting the money back and his life's on the line.

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And there's a few surprising twists that the movie takes.

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But that's kind of the gist of it.

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Yeah, it does not end up how you expect it to end, that's all I'll say.

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So it reminded me of late-'90s, like early-aughts crime-action movies.

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Like, the only thing I could... I was racking my brain to figure out what it reminded me of.

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But it kind of reminds me of Suicide Kings, of like a bunch of guys who get, you know, in over their heads.

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I mean, it's not, because Suicide Kings has, like, Christopher Walken tied up.

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But like that vibe, that vibe of like being a criminal, but I don't want to be.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, we've had a lot of people tell us it's kind of like that early-'90s, 2000s kind of movie.

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It's interesting you say that.

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Yeah, I got kind of a, and this is weird because the movies are very different.

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But I got a Kevin Smith-y sort of vibe from it.

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And I could have just been that it reminded me of movies I watched back then.

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Because I'm old.

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I remember these movies when they came out and I would go see them in the movie theater.

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And so there was like the dialogue's not the same.

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It's not a Kevin Smith movie, but there must have been something about the vibe of it that just reminded me of that era also.

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Right, right, right.

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I could see that.

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And some people have told me that similar thing too.

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They're like, look, you can have kind of like a Kevin Smith progression.

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You know, where you make your own Clerks or whatever and kind of do something like that.

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Something that we've heard recently is, I don't know if you guys saw Caught Stealing.

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Yes.

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So when we watched that movie, we were like, wait a second.

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And some people have told us recently too.

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They're like, this is Caught Stealing if it was made in Utah for no money.

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And I was like, no, Caught Stealing is Last Reckoning if it was made by Aronofsky.

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Yeah, honestly, that was one of my touch points.

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But I was like, that feels too recent to be a thing.

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But I've had that happen where you make something or you write something and then you're like,

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oh shit, this thing that's exactly what I wrote is also coming out.

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Hopefully you're able to ride that wave a bit, of whatever Caught Stealing generated.

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No, it was fun and it was cool too.

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Because we were like, all right, what's he doing?

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Like, what can we use from this to make our movie better?

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You know?

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Hell yeah.

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Well, and so that actually is a great transition to my next question for you.

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So going into the movie, Caleb, you wrote Last Reckoning, correct?

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Yeah, yeah.

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I co-wrote it with Alberto, and then I also was doing, like, assistant directing, a little bit of a hybrid situation.

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But I directed a handful of scenes.

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We kind of split off and would, like, do one scene.

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He does another scene, kind of make it more resourceful.

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Sure, sure, sure.

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So, yeah, multiple hats.

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I dig it, especially doing indie stuff.

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You can't be so hardcore about the job titles.

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But so going into it, before you guys started shooting, what did you use as inspiration to

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let everybody know what kind of movie you were making?

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Did you watch other things, or did you just go in blind?

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You know, like we're making a movie in the broadest sense of the term.

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Yeah, well, I mean, I guess you could start kind of like it with the very, very beginning

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which was, we, as in me and Alberto, we had met on some other projects of other friends.

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We met kind of like a big friend group in that area doing some other projects and then

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some of us kind of stayed together and kept in touch. Me and Alberto kept in touch on a lot of his projects

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that he's been doing. And at one point it was me, Alberto, and another friend.

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We're like, hey, we're thinking about moving to LA together.

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We should do it.

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And I was like, cool, let's do it.

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Let's do it in the summer.

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And I was like, all right, I'm planning on it.

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And it's like June is our formal plan for moving.

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This is like 2023 around April.

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Alberto comes to me and he's like, look, I just did a short film and I'm doing the math.

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You know, if we do it multiple times, we just have a feature.

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What if we move to LA with a feature instead of just moving to LA empty-handed?

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And I was like, well, we're definitely not going to move in the summertime, I guess.

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So we're going to have to push that back.

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So we're like, all right, this is kind of crazy, but I want to take a risk

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and want to do something and that kind of like kicked it off.

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So Alberto had some notes on his Notes app.

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And he kind of went through there and that kind of started with an initial idea.

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But Alberto has his own side of the story too.

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Yeah, as far as inspiration for the movie goes, I mean, to create the film that was kind of the

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inspiration and then we immediately started looking at like, what could we do?

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So I have like a notes app full of ideas, any time I have an idea, I'll just write it down,

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just like the sentence or whatever it is. So we've kind of picked one and we were like, okay,

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what are similar movies that we can kind of draw some inspiration from to kind of see where we

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can go with the story? So honestly, like, it was a lot of just like, we'd write something and then

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we'd just get absolute, like, brain fog, and then we'd be like, okay, let's go watch a movie or something

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to figure this out. But I'd say, like, our biggest inspirations for it were, like, stuff that you

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might not even expect, like No Country for Old Men, a lot of Mission: Impossible. Like, we probably

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rewatched the entire series like six times while making this. But there's no masks in this whole

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movie. We were taking a lot of notes of, like, pacing and, like, the editing and the action and how they

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would fit things together. And we'd be like, oh my gosh, okay, why didn't they show this dialogue

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before the action? Why did they show it after? Or, like, why did they cut to it in the middle of the

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action instead of waiting for everything to finish? So we'd be just like literally like rewinding and

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like frame by frame like, oh, wait, oh, that's how they did that. Okay, cool, cool, cool, okay. So we

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can figure this out. I'd say another one too is, like, The Hangover. The Hangover was also like a really

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good inspiration for us. So we were honestly, it's like the way I would describe our movie,

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influences-wise, is like if No Country for Old Men and The Hangover kind of had a mashup. No Hangovers

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for Old Men. I saw a little bit of Breaking Bad in it too, not just because of the locations,

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but some of the characters. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Breaking Bad, huge influence on almost

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everything I write, almost everything I try to make. There's a lot of Lost for me too. Like,

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you know, the cutting back and forth between like different people's perspectives. I get that

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from having watched Lost like seven or eight times. That's true. That's awesome. You guys are living

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in the dream. I had a similar experience when I moved to LA back before the before times, but yeah,

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we did college with a bunch of guys. We're like, let's move to LA. Let's make it happen. But we were

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not smart enough to utilize the resources we had in Arizona before we came out. We are just like,

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let's go. And then we came out here and just became super successful is what I meant to say.

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Right away. Exactly. Just boom. Just right away. Super successful. But that's great that you guys

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had the wherewithal to utilize where you were. Did you guys meet in Utah or did you guys meet

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somewhere else? Yeah. Yeah, we met in Utah, in that friend group that we kind of cultivated together.

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It was like a short series project that some friends put together and then I kind of joined in

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the group, and that's kind of where we met, me and Alberto and some other friends that we've all kept

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touch with. Yeah, there's friends of ours that to this day we're still working on stuff with them.

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Utah has a really cool, very tight-knit film community. It was really cool to just be able to

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everybody kind of works on everybody else's projects. Everyone who stays in touch and then

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every couple of months you just hear someone go like, all right, I'm doing something and everyone's

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like, all right, let's do it. Let's help you out with it. Even if it's just, like, to share

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post stuff on your stories about the project. We kind of come from that group and so we've tried to

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keep that vibe active. Moving out here, it was me, Caleb, my brother, and then another friend of ours.

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We all came out here at the same time. We've been trying to keep that community alive and going.

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It's so invaluable to have that. If nothing else, just to keep your spirits up because

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LA does one thing really well, and it's beat you down. It helps to have a support system that helps lift you

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up and you can always do something. When I first went to town, I had three or four roommates that

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were like that. We would lean on each other and shoot stuff and just keep each other working.

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Because yeah, it's hard to do and it's so important to make those connections, to make stuff.

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Especially if you're going to go make a movie for what you guys made it for, which is incredible.

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I think that's one of the advantages actually now of Hollywood being what it is. Not what it was.

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When I first moved to LA, it was just my wife and I. We had some friends down here, but we weren't

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making movies down here. We made movies up in Washington State, which is where we're from. When we

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came down here, it was like, "Okay, now we're going to go on auditions and we're going to do all the

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Hollywood stuff." The system was still very much in place back then. Then we learned pretty quickly

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that that system sucked. We started making our own stuff and then we met people and we all made

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our own stuff, but it was easy to get distracted by Hollywood back then. You would meet some people

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and they'd be like, okay, okay, but no, I got this development deal over at this thing. And so

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so they'd be gone. They'd be off doing this development deal and nothing would ever come of it.

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Then by then they were jaded and angry. But we just kept kind of plugging away. But now that

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distraction isn't really there anymore. I think it might be easier for you guys to keep your

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little community going because it is important because if you don't make stuff, you will leave.

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Or else you'll just get a jobby job, and you can do that anywhere. You don't need to do that here.

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But yeah, you guys are already way ahead of the game, which is really inspiring. I'm very

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inspired by you guys. It was good to come with a feature. I came with features, but they were bad.

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They were college features. So I didn't use them, because the old system, nobody was going to be

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impressed because I couldn't make a film that would impress them. I didn't have that kind of

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resources. But you guys do, and you did. So now maybe you could do something with it, but even if you

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don't, if you don't let that discourage you, you're going to keep going because you want to make movies.

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Yeah. That was kind of the logic. In my mind, it's the classic story. So many people move to

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Los Angeles with a script and they're trying to sell it or they're trying to get it made.

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And I was like, man, I don't want to hold on to the script for the next 10 years,

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trying to figure out how am I going to do this. I was like, look, I've just made two

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pretty high production value short films here in Utah. Why don't I just make six more and just

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pretty high-production-value short films here in Utah. Why don't I just make six more and just

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have a feature? That literally, my pitch to Caleb was, instead of showing up with a script,

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all you got to do. You know, it's like we did all the work already. Yeah. And everybody knows

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distribution is the easy part. Right. That's three years later. So before we get too deep into

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the nitty-gritty, because man, I just, I have so many questions about how you made this movie. You've

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kind of answered this, but one of the things we like to ask on the show is what the OPM is for the

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movie. And I know I say this every week, I'm never going to change it, though. OPM is a terrible title,

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but it's what we came up with. Every movie has these three elements to it. It has an obsession,

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a pivot, and a miracle. It has the thing that got you so excited that you're like, this is

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the thing. It has that moment while you were shooting that you're like, oh no, everything sucks

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that you're able to pivot into a moment of victory. And then a miracle, something that shouldn't

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have happened, but did happen. So my first question is, what was it about this one line in your

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notes app that you're like, this is the one to make? Okay. So for me personally, we probably had chosen

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like three or four different ideas to start working on, but we very quickly realized, like, we can't

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just start writing. We can't just go crazy with an idea. We need to figure out if any of this is

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feasible at all. Like, can we actually shoot it? So we went and we kind of wrote down all the locations

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we had available to us. And we went out with the camera and lenses and we were like, let's just do

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a little location scout. Like, let's just do some camera tests. And we did a camera test, probably

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spent like a day or two doing camera tests. We rented a lens that I really wanted and I was,

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you know, we were just trying to see like, what's this going to look like? Does this inspire us?

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does this inspire us? Does this make us want to write this movie? And that camera test was pretty cool.

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shoot, okay, this is the movie. You know, we looked at the images we had at the end of it and we were like,

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yeah, no, this is it. This is the look. This is this is what it's going to be. Okay, cool. Let's write it.

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And I think that's kind of what guided us throughout the processes. Like, we want the movie to look

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as cool as this camera test. Yeah, no pressure. Jeez. Yeah. I think it was just, like, the genre.

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I think I was really interested in doing something more action oriented. It's, you know, it has some

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action elements. I wouldn't say it's like a full blown action movie, but there's action elements,

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you know, kind of like a high stakes, you know, more fast-paced story. I think it was really interesting,

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you know, makes someone interested. Grab them first, you know, when they see the movie. Right. Because

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a lot of indie films choose to go for something more like horror or drama. And we were like, well,

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we can kind of set ourselves apart by doing a genre that most people think is too expensive or like

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hard to do if you're not an experienced filmmaker. And it might have been really ambitious to do that,

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you know, right out the gate, but we're like, look, there's no use in trying if we're not going to go all

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out. Yeah, I'm a big fan of a healthy dose of ignorance before you do anything major, but I will tell

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you that I think it's really hilarious that you're like, we're going to see what we can do and

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see what's in the budget range. You know, like, so we're going to run around downtown with guns.

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And you're like, this is totally the one. Right, right. Yeah.

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The easiest thing we could do. Well, we can talk about this later when we actually talk about making

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the movie, but you were pretty smart with how you use those guns. Because I was thinking before I

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watched this, like, I know there's going to be guns. And I know there's going to be low budget

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filmmaking. And those two don't always go together because cops get calls and people get weird.

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When you start running around town with guns in your hands, but you were very smart with when

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those guns came out and where. So good job with that. So then as you were making the movie, was there a

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moment where everything went south and it changed your trajectory of the movie for the better?

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Well, there were several moments on set that we had to like do like some major pivots. I'll let Caleb

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tell the one about, you know, one of our locations that fell through and then worked, but then fell

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through again. And it was just kind of crazy. But for me personally, I think the major pivot that we

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did with the movie came in post-production. So the tone of the movie originally was supposed to be

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like very serious. Like we thought we were making No Country for Old Men too. Like that's what it was

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going to be, you know, and you can even see in some of our early marketing materials, like when we did

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we did some pre-sales for our Blu-rays, you can see that it was still very down-to-earth, like very

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gritty. And once we had our first rough cut, we realized like, oh, that's not the movie we have at all.

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That is not the movie we made. That's the movie we wanted to make. But we realized that it had like a

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more like that's where kind of I think The Hangover influence comes through is that we realized that we

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had a much more lighthearted and like funny movie than we thought originally. And so, you know,

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everything from like music choices to like the pacing of the film, everything had to change because

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we were like, no, we had we even changed the genre because before it was supposed to be just like an

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action thriller. And now I think it's on Amazon. It's like a comedy, suspense, crime, kind of like

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hybrid thing. But I think that was like a really big pivot that needed to be made if we wanted to

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film to work properly. You know, it's like we were fighting against the actual tone of the film and

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we realized like, no, no, let's let's do it. Let's let's rework this. Yeah, that's a big moment of

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self-reflection to have when you're watching the movie and you're like, oh, oh, I see what I made.

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I mean, good for you guys for seeing it early and not because at first you're disappointed. You're like,

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man, I didn't I didn't make the thing I thought I wanted to make, you know, like you're like,

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ah, shoot. Yeah. But then, but then once you accept it, you're like, okay, what does the movie want

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to be? What are these performances giving me? You know, I'm not going to fight against it. You have to work

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with it. Well, that's what I tell people because I'm an editor and I know that they're disappointed and

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I'll cut it in a way and they're like, I don't think he gets it. Like, no, I don't think you understand

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what movie you made. You wanted to make a movie, but this isn't the movie you made. I'm trying to edit

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the movie you shot, not the movie you wanted to shoot. They're always like, did you read the script? I'm

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like, I don't care about the script. The script isn't going on screen. The footage is going on screen.

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And so it's good that you pivoted and didn't try to force it into a box. Yeah, because that dictates

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everything else you do. You know, like your marketing materials, what your trailer looks like. Can you

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imagine if we had made like, you know, if we made it seem like it was this very serious film that

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was going to talk about some like deep social issues of like what it's like to recover, you know,

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you're on parole and like, and then you get there and you watch it and it's Last Reckoning and you're

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like, what the heck? You're like, what the freak? Well, I think it's really interesting. We say that

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about editing just because I feel like throughout the entire process of making the movie, the main thing

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was that the movie you make the movie three times. You write it, you shoot it, and then you edit it.

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I think the biggest learning that we did was in the editing process. You know, making a feature is

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completely different than making anything else, you know, short film, what have you, all that stuff.

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I was also trying to mention the one kind of miracle or, like, pivot that we had to do

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when we're shooting the film specifically, you know, we were trying to use our locations to

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our advantage, and downtown Salt Lake, there was one alleyway that we really wanted to use. So I, like,

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I went through so many different locations and I basically picked this one and we're like, this

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is the one. We wanted to use this one. This is amazing. Scheduled the date. And then on top of that,

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I was like, just in case, I'm going to make three or four backup locations, if anything happens,

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available to me. So we ended up going to the location, as, like, on a Sunday. It is in Utah.

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So granted, the spot we were at, this alleyway, is next to, like, a little shopping center. And then

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there's like another stone-looking building. I didn't know what it was, but apparently we get there

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to go and shoot. And this scene we're going to be like yelling, screaming, you know, like throwing

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people against the wall. We don't necessarily want to make a lot of, you know, grab a lot of attention,

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but that stone building, it was like a church. And they were getting out of church, so there's

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probably like a hundred people walking out. I'm like, I don't just want to be screaming and throwing people

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against walls. Like, what are we going to do? So we needed to go and check on our other

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locations. Our other locations were all... there's a jackhammer across the street, just...

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They were tearing down a building, and we were like, dude, this happened within the last day or two.

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Like, this has never happened. We even location-scouted all of our locations as well.

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So, like, we went there, and just because that church was, like, in disguise,

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there's, like, a stone building. I had no idea, like, that's what it was. So that was kind of a crazy

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moment, but we ended up being able to pivot by moving our schedule around. So we went and shot

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a different scene just downtown at a different location, kind of moved it up the schedule. And then

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came back and shot the alleyway scene. And luckily it like worked out that way. Because a lot of our

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lighting was also a result of sun position, so that kind of boned us, but it also just ended up working out.

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That's that's crazy. Man, I have a lot of questions about permits now. Yeah, I have a feeling that

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we made our movies in a very similar fashion. Well, I actually, I don't know if you did. And that's

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actually my big question. But hold on, hold on. Before we get there, we haven't gotten there yet.

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Hold on. We got a, we got a whole thing that we're doing here. I'm trying to stay on, stay on

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target. So honestly, like, it could be discovering the movie was your miracle moment, but do you have

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another miracle moment, like making the movie or finishing the movie or getting it out or, you

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know, somewhere in there, like getting, yeah, personally, I feel like the movie was honestly,

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it's a miracle that the movie got made in the first place. And we didn't really realize this

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until looking back now, but it felt like anytime we needed something, it would show up

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right as we needed it. So like locations would just pop up, you know, like the alleyways, like I'd never

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seen, like, an alleyway like that in Salt Lake. I'd lived there for, like, years. And anytime it was like,

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oh yeah, they just removed the fence off of this one place, you know, like gear whenever we were like,

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how are we going to do the shot? Somebody would message me or Caleb and be like, hey, I saw you guys

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were shooting a movie. Like I've got this piece of gear. If you guys want to use it, just put me

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in the credits. And we'd be like, okay, there we go. Like, we were finishing up our rough cut and,

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you know, we have a movie night at one of our friend's houses here in L.A. and they've got a friend over

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and we're like, oh, hey, what's up? And he's like, oh, yeah, I'm from New York. I'm just visiting for

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a couple days. I'm a composer. And we're like, oh, really? And he's like, yeah, yeah. I've always wanted

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to do like an action movie. And we're like, whoa, whoa, okay. But it was like he was there for one day

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at their house. And it just so happened to be the day that we were there too. So many things like

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that would happen where like as soon as we were like, okay, we're going to be moving on to the next

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phase. How are we going to do this? Boom. Something would show up and we'd be like, all right, that's how

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we're going to do this. Yeah. Not even to mention, to your point, that when we started the project,

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you were just about to move to LA, but we're both in a good position financially because we'd both

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like, worked on some bigger shows and, you know, just in the industry and saved up a bunch of money. And

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like that alone was like, I don't know if that would ever happen again. You know, like that point

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in time where we could just be able to take off time to just work on this project for four months

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straight because that's what we did. So that is one big advantage to being as young as you are

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and not having children or you know, that kind of stuff. But you know, you can still do it when you're

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old. But that is still like, I love it when that happens. When the universe wants your movie to

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happen, and then, like, the universe provides. And I don't want to get all, like, woo-woo about

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stuff. But I feel like if you put out good vibes into the universe, the universe will always kind of

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take care of you in that way. And the movie Last Reckoning is a testament to that, it seems.

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Yeah. You have to be willing to also take the chance. I mean, there's still a chance in it.

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The universe will give you stuff. But if you don't take it then what's the point?

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Yeah. And we talk about it all the time where like everybody's just holding out for, you know,

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their opportunity or whatever. But when the opportunity comes, are you ready? Like are you ready

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and willing to take the opportunity? We've seen so many people, friends of ours, even within that

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group that, you know, we mentioned that get an opportunity and we're like, oh my gosh, okay,

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here we go. And then they don't do it, you know, whether they didn't realize it was an opportunity

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or maybe they weren't ready yet and they couldn't do it just then. And so we kind of hold ourselves

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accountable to like, hey man, that email that was a really, you know, you should reply like, you

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know, that kind of thing. We're always trying to stay aware of like when opportunities are coming

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and being like, okay, we got you got to be ready for them. You got to be ready. Like, oh, if a piece of

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somebody offers some gear, but we don't have the shoot planned, or we don't have the scene ready for

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us to film, we can't take advantage of that. So it's like we, we're trying to always be ready

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for when something does happen. You can drop everything and pivot to that and be like, okay,

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for when something does happen. You can drop everything and pivot to that and be like, okay,

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or times that I didn't know that I was in a position to take advantage of an opportunity. Yeah.

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It's good wherewithal you guys have and and a good system to keep yourselves accountable. Because I

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think that's also the big thing. It's like you need somebody yelling. I always need somebody

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yelling at me. I'm a good rallyer. I'm a bad pusher. And I need somebody who's like, hey, you

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idiot, do this. But at the same time, don't forget that the opportunity is only as big as the

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the risk you're willing to take. An opportunity could be something as big as, hey, man, I've got

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this camera. And then I mean, is that an opportunity? I mean, I guess. Okay. But the opportunity is what

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you make of it. So don't forget that you're creating more opportunities than you realize. Right.

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Just out of these little inspirations. I think too moving forward just like very recently,

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there's been some other things that are happening where maybe like I've fallen short on the

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opportunity and missed out on it. So it's like, oh, I need to make sure not just be you know, you want

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to be ready for the opportunity. But what are you doing now to prepare and be ready for a potential

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opportunity? You know, where that's like, oh, I need to have another feature script or another

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project ready to go. And so in case somebody asks me, it's like, that's the preparations you can't

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be ready for it. And not to beat yourself up if you missed an opportunity. Because again, like,

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I've missed a ton and you know, you can miss an opportunity to be like, oh, it sucks. And,

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you know, never get that again. And that didn't help anybody. But what you said Caleb of like,

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yeah, okay, I missed an opportunity. But how could I make sure I'm ready for it next time? Is the

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way to approach it? Exactly. And there are some opportunities actually are better off having missed

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to be quite honest with you. Yes. I've said yes to some stuff that I wish I hadn't

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like this podcast. Yeah. Oh my gosh. The worst decision I ever made. So all right. Great. Now, we want

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to ask you so many questions about resourcefulness because your movie was made for, I don't like to ask

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budgets because budgets are all weird. But I know it was part of your marketing plan. So tell me,

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how big was your budget on this thing? So production budget, by the time we were done shooting,

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we had spent just under $3,000. Now, the movie wasn't finished with $3,000. Obviously,

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we had some other stuff to do and to pay for. We did a round of pre-orders for our Blu-rays and for

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digital versions of the film. So we were able to raise like, I think, $2,400 after that. And that

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helped pay for some of our post-production expenses and stuff. But it was mostly like optional stuff.

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It was more like, we need a piece of software that we really wanted or something like that. And so

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the movie was shot for $3,000. We'd already spent a good two and a half years. So we're like,

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let's just raise a little bit more money. Total, I think, we spent $5,500, maybe.

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Which is still ridiculous. So nuts. Because it doesn't look like it. It looks like a million dollars.

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Like, if you told me you spent 25 grand on it, if you told me you spent 100 grand on it,

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I'd be like, yeah, of course. Because the action sequences and the locations and all of that.

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It's, what's the word? It's fighting way above its weight class, which is a testament to your

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guys' talent behind the camera. Thank you, man. Yeah, yeah. But you did a really good job shooting this thing.

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Thank you, guys. Well, I think I would attribute that in large part to Caleb said, like we

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work in the industry, right? So we work on set. We do a lot of different jobs on set.

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like camera assistants. I work a lot as DIT, do a little bit of color, do a lot of editing. And so, like,

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you know, we've been kind of mentored by people on these big sets. And so for us, we were just like

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looking at how a professional set runs. Like, what can we trim down? You know, how can we shave off

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the fat of some of this budget? And what are things that we already know how to do that we can implement

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into it? So it's like I said, we did the camera test. And on that camera test, we figured out what

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camera, what lenses, what time of day, you know, we made our own LUT. Like, we did all these things that

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were like, okay, cool visuals done. Great. Next thing, you know, and so it was more like how do we

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adapt a professional process to a two-man crew, you know, and do it properly, but adapt it in some

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way so we can make it cheaper and a little bit quicker. And that's kind of what I attribute that to.

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Yeah, I attribute it to the run-and-gun style that, where we met each other is on that short series that we

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shot with a bunch of friends that was run in this very similar style to how we shot Last Reckoning.

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So we kind of took that experience. We're like, well, we've done this short series. We could do the

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same thing for the feature like we both, you know, collectively have a lot of camera experience. We can

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cover the camera bases and then just work on the things that we don't necessarily know how to do as

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well, just attack those as hard as possible and figure out a physical problem. Okay, how do we solve it

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with our resources? So a lot of it's with our experience now taking into action. How do we solve

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new problems? Well, and a lot. So I shoot my movies run-and-gun also. No permits. Just around. And one

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of the biggest hurdles that people run into in the shoot that way is if you're going to use the sun

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as your light, you need to know where to put the sun. You need to know where to put the people. And you,

377
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,440
I was watching the whole time like, Oh, yeah, this is all very familiar. They got the light on the

378
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,880
correct side, you know, using the natural ambient light in the correct way in the way that makes it

379
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,520
look the most cinematic. I was really impressed with that, and the sound. I was impressed with the sound too.

380
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:26,120
So I have a question because I do want to know that sound too, but you mentioned that you were calling

381
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,920
these locations and lining them up. Were you shooting with permits or are you just kind of casually

382
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:38,360
calling people because I know when Robb shot his feature, it was all, what's the word, it's criminal. Yeah.

383
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:45,880
Yes, he shot a like a criminal. Like how did that work for you guys? For locations, the way it

384
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:51,480
happened for us was we get a lot of reality show stuff in Utah, right? Like a lot of the sets

385
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,280
you're working on our reality shows. And there was one that I worked on a few months before we did the

386
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:03,160
movie where they had forwarded an email to me and they're like, Hey, keep this on hand in case anybody

387
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:09,480
comes to bug us on our shoot. And the email was from the film commission, the Utah Film Commission that

388
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:15,160
said the rule in Salt Lake County is if you have four people or less, you don't need a permit to

389
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:21,240
shoot in any public space. And I immediately saved that email and I was like, Oh, this is it. This is

390
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:30,440
big. So for all of our locations other than the motel and Darcy's bedroom, they were all Salt Lake

391
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:39,800
County public areas. And we we kept our cast and crew to four people or less. Now, you know, you

392
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,680
bend the rules, you know, like maybe there's four people on screen or there's three people on screen

393
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,640
plus a camera person. And so Caleb would go, like, across the street and just kind of hang out, or, like,

394
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,800
we'd switch and do something like that, you know, where you're like, Okay, well, technically there's

395
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:59,480
only four people over there. I'm in the car, you know, I'm not with them. Hey, it's not a crime to be

396
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,520
hanging around the film set. But yeah, that's that's basically how we picked our locations. We were

397
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:10,360
like how many locations are Salt Lake County public areas that we can shoot at without permits

398
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:16,360
legally without permits, or bending the rules without permits. And that's kind of what guided, like,

399
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:21,240
what the locations would be for the film. That's what I tell people all the time, like less is more

400
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,680
with these things. If you want the crew, that's great, but you're not going to get the location.

401
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,160
Right. You know, figure it out because the less is more. And plenty of cities across America have

402
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:35,160
similar things, you know, like tourists can film vlogs or YouTubers can go out and shoot stuff.

403
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,720
Why would it be any different with us? You know, like just because it's a film will just look up

404
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,800
where you're shooting. They might have different, you know, some places might be up to ten people.

405
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:48,280
I don't know, like some places might be just like, oh, if you're not blocking the sidewalk, you're good,

406
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:53,480
you know, so it's I think it helps to know beforehand that like, hey, I might need permits.

407
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,360
Let me check what the rules are. Oh, I can get away without permits. Cool. You know, I just got to do

408
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:03,480
these things. So for us, like if you look at the movie and you try to pinpoint, you know, ah, you

409
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:08,200
should have had permits here or there. To us technically, we didn't need permits for any of that.

410
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:13,000
So like that's how, you know, we kind of got away with it. And we structured the film

411
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:18,360
around that too. So it wasn't like we were shooting and we're like, yeah, I wonder what the rules are

412
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:24,200
for shooting here, you know, it was like, okay, we can shoot in these places and we don't need

413
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:29,640
a permit. And having one dude run down a flight of stairs in the really cool building while

414
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,040
it's being filmed from like a half a mile away, right? That's not bothering anybody. Like nobody's

415
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,120
going to get on your ass about that stuff. Yeah. And that's a good way to use this type of stuff.

416
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,440
Use your locations when you've got a few people and then have them go into a room when you've got more,

417
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:48,600
when you need more. What, what did you shoot the movie with? Like DSLR? Are you shooting with, like,

418
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:55,000
I don't know, like an FX3? No, no, we, we, we shot the movie with two Blackmagic

419
00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:00,760
Pocket Cinema Camera 4Ks. That's kind of what the idea started with, is that I bought one

420
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:05,400
and then I had one from previous projects. We were like, oh, could we use both of them? So,

421
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,680
oh nice. Were you doing double coverage the entire time? Yes. Yeah. That was, that was another one

422
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,920
of those things where we're like, hey, let's try and shoot with two cameras to speed it up. And

423
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,720
everybody advises us not to do it. No, definitely, absolutely do it. That's what I did for my movie too.

424
00:34:19,720 --> 00:34:24,360
Do it 100%. All of my cinematographer friends, all of my AC friends, they're like, dude, it's going to

425
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,560
look so bad. Bro, you can't light for two cameras at the same time. And we're like, well, what if you

426
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,120
light for two cameras at the same time? Instead, you know, like, it's not like we're lighting for one

427
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:39,080
camera and just throwing a second angle there and it doesn't look as good. It's like, we set up the

428
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,880
angles. Okay, let's let's figure out the lighting. Let's make it work. And it doesn't have to be cross

429
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,800
coverage. You could do a close-up and a medium at the same time. Exactly. Exactly. And that's what we did

430
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:53,160
a lot of times is we were just do like, okay, if we're lit for this, let's get the two angles of this

431
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:58,440
that we know we're going to need. And then when we move on, we move everything on. So you can do it.

432
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,080
But yeah, it was the two of us and the logic didn't exactly work out that way. But it was like, if we

433
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:11,240
have two cameras, we could shoot twice as fast. We shoot twice as much. For sure. We're sure. We have

434
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:17,720
twice the amount of footage. That's like, you've shot more. Sure feels like it. But you can, like, since you

435
00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:22,200
guys built so much in post, having those two cameras was probably quite helpful. Yeah, absolutely.

436
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:27,640
Lots more options. So what did you guys do for sound? Because sound is a big problem that I

437
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:32,920
feel like we've solved on the movies I'm making, but I don't know what you guys did. Yeah. Um, I feel

438
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:39,720
like any sound person would would absolutely hate the way we did sound. That is not like, not like it at

439
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:45,080
all. So I do want to put this disclaimer out there. I love and absolutely respect sound people. I

440
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,400
feel like they're one of the people on set that you should not bargain with when it comes to their

441
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:54,840
day rate. You pay sound people what they deserve. And that's it. But we've worked on a lot of run and

442
00:35:54,840 --> 00:36:01,720
gun productions, you know, whether it's short films and stuff or like I said, reality gigs. And I

443
00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:07,560
think, honestly, reality TV is where I learned the most of this from. Like getting decent sound with

444
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,280
reality is kind of hard. You know, you're in a restaurant with 50 people and you're trying to shoot a

445
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:19,720
conversation between three at a table. So basically almost all of our sound came from lav mics

446
00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:24,920
on the actors. So we mic'd up everybody exactly. Yeah, that's perfect. Robb, nobody can see what you're

447
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,600
doing because we're not a video podcast. That's okay. I'm holding up a lavalier mic that I shot on.

448
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:34,680
You see my movie. Perfect. Right. So so I have two lavalier mics and then whenever we would need extra

449
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,960
ones, we would just rent them. They're super cheap. We would mic everybody up properly, you know, using

450
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:45,480
moleskin. We put it in the right position, test it out, make sure it sounded good, had them kind of like

451
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,320
move and rustle their clothes a little bit to make sure we weren't getting anything, you know, crazy

452
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:54,520
going on. But then we also made sure that the cameras had backup mics on them as well. And if there

453
00:36:54,520 --> 00:37:00,200
was ever a situation where we weren't sure if we were going to get a line cleanly, after we shot,

454
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:05,560
we would just go in and ask like, hey, can we just get an audio take of that line real quick? You

455
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,640
know, a lot of times we would just be like, let's just shoot a close up and let's just get that audio

456
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:15,080
just really clean so that we can use it. And we did end up having to do a little bit of ADR,

457
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:20,760
just like a few lines, your classic like action movie, like grunts and breaths and stuff like that,

458
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,480
which, you know, thinking about it now, I feel like, you know, that's like a mental note, like,

459
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:31,480
get the extra stuff, get the extra stuff during production. But yeah, that's basically how we did it.

460
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:37,880
But I would say that none of it would have been worth it if we hadn't found our sound mixer.

461
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:44,120
Our friend Bridger, he does sound on set as well. He's a production sound mixer. And he, in Last

462
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:49,480
reckoning fashion, right when we were ready to do our sound mix, he moved to LA. And we were like,

463
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:56,200
Bridger, my friend, come through and help us out with this. And he was great because he's like,

464
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:01,960
oh, I do, you know, post-production audio as well. And he saw the cut of the movie and he's like, okay,

465
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:07,000
I think I see what I can do. And so he went and touched it up for us. But even he said he was like,

466
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:13,000
I'm surprised that, you know, I thought it was going to be a lot more work. But most of the audio

467
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:18,200
was pretty clean. So I would say that it was just like, just making sure that we thought about it

468
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:23,240
in advance. And we had everything ready to capture everything we needed. Sure. And so with

469
00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:29,000
the lavs capturing locally on their packs, or are they capturing wirelessly to the cameras? Yes.

470
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:34,440
That is the only thing I would like for the future, is wireless capabilities, so I can listen

471
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:40,440
in while we're shooting. But yeah, so each mic was recording locally and then we had our camera

472
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,760
mic backups. Yeah, that's what I tell everybody. It's like the only downside to this way is that you

473
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,680
don't get to monitor the audio. Yeah. And so you don't necessarily know what you've got until you get

474
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:54,520
back home. Yeah. But I've had so few problems that I won't change. I don't care that I can't monitor.

475
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,760
I just have to make sure the actors turn their mics on. Yeah. Yeah. See, I told you I thought that

476
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,920
this movie was shot a lot like the way that I'm shooting my movies. That's true. Listen, you guys

477
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,720
brought up securing locations and I... He said finding locations. He said securing locations. He said

478
00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:12,680
they had locations. I mean, I had my idea about what my locations were. So this is also important

479
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:18,200
when you're shooting this way, is you have to have backups. Do not rely on a location that you

480
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:24,920
don't control. Definitely have backups. And what you did. And so I mean, make sure your light's

481
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,880
the same or shoot at a different angle. Just don't get too precious. Right. Yeah. And it was like

482
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:35,080
when Caleb put together the backups for the locations, it was like, okay, this location is great.

483
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:40,040
Second location. That is great. But it could work. And then the third location is like, I don't know if

484
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,920
I'd want to shoot here, but if we have to, we can. And so it kind of goes like that. And so throughout

485
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,560
the day, you're like, all right, location one isn't working. We're going to go to location two. And I

486
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:54,280
hope we don't have to go to location three. But it was just like that, you know, you got to be flexible

487
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,760
and you got to make it work. So like he said, we ended up flipping the schedule. And so since we had

488
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,800
planned the shoot for the sunlight for the time of day, we shot a scene earlier in the day that we

489
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,640
should have shot later. And so when I got there, I'm like, all the lighting's not great. Oh, it

490
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:12,200
doesn't work. You know, but then you figure out like, okay, well, what can we do? Can we look the opposite

491
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:17,960
direction instead and make it work here or like, can we maybe shoot the scene backwards and start with

492
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,960
the end of the scene instead of the beginning? Because then by the time we get to the beginning,

493
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:26,200
it's a little bit later. And now we've got that light that we wanted. So there's just a lot of things

494
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:31,080
that you got to do. It's like you said, you can't be precious with it. You plan for it. You have

495
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,720
your backup plan. But then you got to be ready to just throw everything out the second, you know,

496
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:40,920
you get there. And luckily for us, there's a couple things that we would catch. Like we were shooting

497
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:46,920
on the weekends instead of just shooting it all in one go. And so like we'd shoot on the weekend,

498
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:51,400
then I'd look through all the footage. We'd do like a little test color grade. I could listen to

499
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:56,760
all the audio. Like we had a week to figure out, you know, if anything was messed up. And so there were

500
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:02,760
situations where, you know, there was an entire scene that we had to reshoot somebody's angle. But we

501
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:07,000
caught it immediately and we're like, can you do tomorrow? Can we reshoot this tomorrow? And so we

502
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:12,040
went and we reshot the whole scene from that person's angle. And okay, cool. We got it. You know, so it

503
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:17,640
was like we gave ourselves plenty of room to where if we did mess something up, we could just redo it.

504
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:23,720
We were just talking about that last week about how it's good to not just schedule a giant chunk

505
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:27,800
and think you're going to shoot all your movie. Because if you screw something up, you kind of want

506
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:32,440
to know if you can go back and pick it up. So having a little break between, so you can check the

507
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,120
footage and check everything and make sure it's okay. And you don't have to reshoot anything. It's

508
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:40,520
almost a must. You should plan it into your budget films. It's easier to ask somebody like, hey,

509
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:46,280
can I get you for like two or three hours tomorrow and reshoot this? Then a year later, be like,

510
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:51,640
hey man, like I'm so sorry. Can we, you know, like at this point, they've grown a beard. They got

511
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:57,720
long hair and you're like, can we cut your hair and like, have you come back? No, it's hard, you know.

512
00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:01,880
I had to throw a wig on one of my actors. Oh, because we did it almost a year later.

513
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,840
Yeah, see that's, that's tough. Plus the fact that like we were thinking, we're shooting on weekends. So

514
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,880
if we need rentals, for example, we only pay for one day and we have them for three. Right. So

515
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,960
that's one of the cost-cutting measures that we took for the, for the film. So everything was kind

516
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,760
of planned around like we kind of know what we're doing, but we kind of don't. And we need to give

517
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,240
ourselves some leeway for those things that we don't know how to do because we might mess that up. So

518
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:32,360
we gave ourselves that little bit of, like, buffer space to figure things out at the, you know, at the same

519
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:38,840
time. Totally. How many weekends did you shoot? Four? That weekend in July. Yeah, so it was, it was

520
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:46,840
12 days total. Four weekends. You jerks. Yeah, we shot, we initially shot 10 days and then we had

521
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:51,560
two days where one was a pickup shoot and the other one was the reshoot. Right. So that was it. And

522
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,880
then we were like, all right, everybody go home. Yeah, that's, I mean, again, that's about on par with

523
00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:01,640
the movies that I'm making too. It's almost identical. See, the system works. Listen, it does.

524
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:08,040
It does. I understand the idea of doing the big bulk shoot. So I, when I made my feature, we did a

525
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,800
big, we're going to go up, we're going to shoot for three weeks straight, and you get the weird, like,

526
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,600
set madness of you're here and everyone's kind of hanging out. You fall into a rhythm, and there's

527
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:22,040
there's something nice about that except that you don't have the leeway to come home with footage to

528
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:29,000
open it up. You're like, Oh, you dummy. You forgot these things or, you know, watch this performance or

529
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:36,520
or adjust these things midstream. And so yeah, I think you are again way ahead of the game. Just knowing

530
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:42,440
that like the one thing you have plenty of access to at a certain level is time. You know, there's that

531
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:49,160
production triangle of time, money, and quality. And, you know, take your time, make those qualities

532
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:54,040
you can. And that's not to say that like our process is perfect and it's better than, you know,

533
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:59,880
the way we shoot movies professionally. You know, obviously, if we had all the the structure that

534
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:04,840
a film normally has behind it, it'd be no problem. You know, like, you come home at the end of the day,

535
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,920
your assistant editor's sending you the dailies, you get to watch it the next day, you go up and you're

536
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,920
like, Hey guys, we need to redo this. Like, that's great. But we were, you know, it was just a matter of

537
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:19,880
looking like, like, what do we have? And how can we adapt the process to make it work for us? But I do

538
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:25,320
think that part of it is knowing what the process normally is. You know, like, I feel like if we didn't

539
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:31,720
have as much experience on set, and if we didn't have, you know, the traditional like classic filmmaking

540
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:36,600
experience that we do, it would be much harder because we wouldn't know what we don't have. So

541
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:43,320
right. It's easier to change the process than to make up a completely new process. Right. That old

542
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:48,520
adage of like, you got to know the rules before you break the rules, which is tough to take, I think,

543
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:53,240
when you're, when you're so energetic about making something, you're just like, just do it. But like,

544
00:44:53,240 --> 00:45:00,120
knowing like, formally, how it's supposed to work, then you can move within that structure to make

545
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,120
the decisions that work best for you. Yeah, I think to that point, it's funny that there's like

546
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:09,640
a structure because I feel like recently we went to a panel for our film festival that we premiered at,

547
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:14,680
and it was David Greenwalt, he did Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But he said specifically, like,

548
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:20,120
get you. He's like, every movie is different and nobody knows anything. So I think that to that point,

549
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:24,760
like, even at a high level, every movie is different and nobody knows anything. So I think it's

550
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:30,200
really just, like, here's a movie I want to make. What resources or techniques do I know? And what

551
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:35,160
can I basically like puzzle piece? I'm like, oh, I know this. Okay, boom, fit it in. Oh, this fit it in.

552
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,800
Great. Now this is the way I do my movie. This is a way to get it. Yeah, it's like, it's like a

553
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:44,360
ladder of problem solving. What do I want? First, I need to do this. How do I get that? Well, first,

554
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,360
then you do this and then, you know, you're building the rungs from the top down and then you just

555
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:53,720
got to follow the ladder up. Yeah. Yeah. So do you guys have, now that you're in LA, and I'm going

556
00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:58,840
to tell you, you can do a movie just like this in LA. I've done it like four times.

557
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:04,760
Do you have anything in the works? Working on some ideas, both me and Alberto,

558
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:10,120
together and separately. But for the time being, it's a mixture of working on those

559
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:14,920
new ideas and then as well as trying to make sure we still get the word out for this movie as well.

560
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,960
Yeah, like we've been writing some stuff throughout the process. We both just submitted short films

561
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:25,560
to, like, a short-film competition that's happening this month, and we've got, like, feature-film scripts

562
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:31,480
going, but it's like the movie has just been like so all consuming. But the good thing is that we've

563
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:37,080
started to get some opportunities pop up because of the film. You know, a lot of people coming up and

564
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:41,000
being like, you know, let me know when you're doing your next thing, producers that we'd worked with

565
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:45,720
on gigs that now they're like, hey, if you're writing anything else, like send it over, I'd love to

566
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:50,840
take a look at it. So that's been kind of cool to see and I, you know, hoping that in the near future,

567
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:57,240
here's some of these opportunities actually actually pan out. Again, it's still, don't let it distract you.

568
00:46:57,240 --> 00:47:03,560
No, yeah, absolutely. Don't rely on those other guys. Absolutely. No, I think what we realize throughout

569
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:11,400
this process is like, not only can we make a movie, but we can make a movie ourselves. And so as we

570
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:16,680
pursue like the bigger opportunities, always have something that you can produce yourself on the

571
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:21,640
back burner where you know, if in a year or two, none of these other ones pan out, okay, just go out and

572
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:28,600
shoot another movie. Film makers have to make films. It is. Right. It is. That's it. That's the whole thing.

573
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:34,920
Right. So I guess we should, I mean, this is as good a place as any to start bringing us in for a landing

574
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:40,600
here. Robb, do you want to ask this last question? Sure. I'll ask the last question. So now that you're

575
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,920
done with the movie, well, I mean, you're still marketing and you're still doing all the marketing.

576
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,240
So if you know me, I just don't, I don't care if anybody watches the movie, so I don't pay attention to

577
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:54,520
that kind of part. But now that you've made the movie, if you got in a time machine and went back to

578
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,600
when you started, is there any advice you give yourselves when you started this whole process?

579
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:05,240
I think personally, and then I kind of realized this just as we were talking, if I could go back and

580
00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:10,360
tell myself anything, it's do those extra little things. The little things that you're like,

581
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:16,120
you know what, it's not that big. We're just not going to worry about it. Like I said, the little ADR

582
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:21,160
lines, the little like, can we just get some grunts and breaths and just like, you know, little things.

583
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:26,680
There was a small scene that I really wish that we had added into the film that would have been

584
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:31,240
really nice. And while we were shooting, I was like, you know what, it's just like a tiny like three

585
00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:37,800
minute scene. Let's not do it. And now I kind of feel like, but it would have been really nice to have.

586
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:42,120
And so like, if I could go back, I would just tell myself, like, do the little extra things. If you

587
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:46,840
have time, just do the extra things that you think are important. Because there is no later.

588
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,800
I mean, there is later, but later is hard. Later is harder than now. That's true. Caleb, do you got any

589
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:59,880
advice for your former self? Yeah, I think there's so much that I've learned just not with like,

590
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:04,280
making a film, but also getting your distribution for our film. I feel like that's probably the

591
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:08,680
biggest thing for me. The last part, you know, the better part of the last year we've been doing

592
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:13,960
distribution stuff. So I think knowing some things about distribution now, you can kind of think

593
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:20,120
about it with it in mind in the beginning. So there's that I probably kind of go back and tell myself,

594
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:24,520
like, hey, you didn't know anything about this, but here's this, this whole thing. Maybe get some

595
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,640
pictures of people while you're on the set, so you can use them later. Right.

596
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,400
[unclear]. Like, hey, here's a couple of links. The articles haven't been written

597
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:38,440
yet, but save these. You'll need them later. Real time machine. Yeah, but it is true. There's

598
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,360
those little things you're like, you know, when you're in the heat of battle, you're just like,

599
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:47,240
God, can we just move on? We just got to we got to move on. We got to move on. But no, take it. Just

600
00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:53,320
take a second. What takes five minutes right now is going to take you days a year from now. So just

601
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:58,040
do it now. Huge headaches. And it's like you said, the little things like some pictures of people

602
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:04,120
on set, you know, maybe shoot a video of a set up that you had, like, all of this can be used later.

603
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:09,000
And it seems so dumb, and like, why would I take a picture? Like, look at me. I'm shooting my movie.

604
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:13,960
But no, but once you get to the point where like, it's on Amazon, we need to be posting daily

605
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:18,680
shoot. We've run out of content. Really wish I had that video right now, you know? So yeah. And you

606
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:24,120
could go back and tell the young me also because that's also my advice for me. I mean, that is honestly

607
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:30,760
the hardest thing about I think modern filmmaking is that never ending churn of stuff you need to make

608
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:36,120
to do the marketing because you know, it takes so much to make the movie that you're like, I finally did

609
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:40,920
it. Done. And you're like, no, it's just now, it's really just started.

610
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:46,200
Seriously, that's what I've heard, looking up on forums and everything. That's the place where everyone's

611
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:51,400
like, that's where filmmakers crash and burn. It's like, no, this is, it's coming up with the idea,

612
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:57,480
shooting it, now it's like the release. There's the three big, big parts. We can't lose it now.

613
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,640
Well, and that's the problem with you guys is age. You should have come up earlier when people didn't

614
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:08,920
have to do that. Now you have to be your own everything. Why was I not making movies in the '90s,

615
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:15,800
man? I was like, just a little kid. You really screwed up. Really screwed up. You guys messed up.

616
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:20,920
You were born too late. Use that time machine to go back to 1996 and start making movies then.

617
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:27,480
Sick. No, it's a crazy industry, man. And you think about it like, you know, some people have

618
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:32,200
asked us like, man, spend three years like, where's the movie? And we were like, look guys, this is

619
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:38,520
two people doing the work of 200. So like, I'm surprised we were able to get it done in three years.

620
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:45,720
It should have taken us like nine or 10. Three years is really good. Three years is really good.

621
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:50,600
Yeah, it's really, really good because it is really tough to get it out in three years is incredible.

622
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:56,440
I think one nice little mention, too, throughout the process, we're always like, through the editing process,

623
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,320
We did like a little screener to get some notes on where the movie was at. And there was some really

624
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:06,360
good notes in there. And we're always constantly like, oh, we want to get it out as fast as possible,

625
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:11,160
as fast as possible. And when we did that screener, like the movie's done when it's done. It'll tell us when

626
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:16,440
it's done. And that's we can't we can't sell it short. We can't be like, all right, we just want to get

627
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:21,560
it out. Ah, here we go. Because then we want to make the best movie we could possibly make. So

628
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,560
there you go. That was that for your big thing. That's right. There's a fine line between being

629
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:30,600
done and being finished. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got to know when you're just moving deck chairs and

630
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:38,600
and when it's time to launch the boat. Right. Well, for sure. Well, guys, this has been fantastic. Yeah,

631
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:44,520
it was really great. I love this whole thing. I am so inspired. I'm really excited for you guys

632
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:50,600
and moving forward. But I know where to find you, but where can everybody find you the movie and

633
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:54,760
everything? Tell me where you are online. Tell me where the movie is online. Tell me how people can

634
00:52:54,760 --> 00:53:02,680
get it? For the movie, if you go to lastreckoningmovie.com, we have links to literally everything: streaming,

635
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:09,240
Blu-rays, any screenings that might be coming up and the the socials for the movie, everything is

636
00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:15,480
on lastreckoningmovie.com. Yeah, we're specifically on Amazon right now and YouTube Movies. That's

637
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:20,040
one of the easiest places you can find us right now. How can they find you guys if they want to hire

638
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:28,280
the world's best directors? For me, easiest would probably be on Instagram at @albertonunes96.

639
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:33,240
I answer to any and everything that shows up on there because I'm there all day long.

640
00:53:33,240 --> 00:53:35,720
Well, don't tempt me. We'll start sending you weird stuff.

641
00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:42,040
Say it with me. Might as well be my Instagram. Might as well as Caleb Keller.

642
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:49,800
I found three choices. Excellent. Excellent. Well, and that about does it for us. So if you have any

643
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:55,320
questions about filmmaking or movies in general, please email us at indiefilmlodge@gmail.com. We'd

644
00:53:55,320 --> 00:54:00,760
love to hear from you and we may feature your question on a future show. In the meantime, tell your

645
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,760
friends about us and remember the only thing holding you back is you. So get out there and shoot your

646
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:16,760
feature. I'm Robb and I'm Matt. We'll see you next time. Woo!