Episode 009

Hey Matt, have you ever like changed up your look? Yeah I went blonde once in my 20s. Did you have more fun? No, I was single until I was 30. Would you do it again? Absolutely. I'm married. I got nothing to lose. [laughs] [music] Hello and welcome to Indie Film Lodge, a podcast about the nuts and bolts of independent filmmaking from the bottom up. I'm Robb Padgett and I'm Matt Jackson and today we're talking about reinvention because good ideas never die but sometimes they need a little makeover to help them meet the moment.

Today's guests are Greg Porper and John Schimke who made the incredible "Don't Tell Larry." Hey, fellas, how are you?

Hello, thanks so much for having us today. We're good. Excellent, we're all doing good. I'm very excited. Okay, good. Just don't tell Rob that we're doing okay. So guys you made this dark comedy I guess we call it "Don't Tell Larry." It's pretty dark. Yeah, somebody hasn't seen it. What is "Don't Tell Larry" all about? Don't tell Larry is a dark office comedy about what happens when you tell a little white lie to the weird new guy at your office and how that one little white lie just spirals wildly out of control.

So there's a little bit of karma as a theme here and what comes around goes around. Or what goes around comes around John, what do you want to add to that? No, I think that's a great way of describing our movie. The only thing I would add on top of that is it explores the idea of how a little white lie escalates to a game of who's going to bury who in the forest at the end is basically where we start and where we get to in the movie.

I mean all the biggest crimes started with a single step. That's true. Correct. You're right. It's a white lie is the gateway to death. There has to be a first victim in a mass murder. There has to be. It's a bird or a dog or I don't know a praying mantis. It could be anything. It reminded me of one of those, and I mean it's in the most complimentary ways. It reminded me of one of those George Bluth tricks from Arrested Development.

But yeah, it's like that's why you always leave a note. When Greg and I were writing the script, I forget when, but there was, we had a lot of iterations of the script, but I remember there was a time we would always make Arrested Development joke.

And that's why you always wear a seat belt because that was like my favorite one of those. It was great. I was really like, man, there's a spot in that movie where I was just, I was getting so tense watching it because as just every decision that was made was the wrong decision.

And it like I understood that it was like it's the right decision at the time, but it really wasn't. Every decision was wrong and it was fantastic. Kudos for making, yeah, making me squirm. Because the nice thing is you can understand why those bad decisions are being made. Yeah, right. They're not coming out of the blue. Somebody's not just doing something stupid. They're logical for the moment and then the next moment, it's not so much logical anymore.

Yeah, right. It's like my life. Yeah, it's really like a system of doubling down. It's got to work this time. I feel it. It's got to happen. So going into this, yeah, if you weren't using Arrested Development for inspiration, what were you using this inspiration when you were coming up with the idea for this?

For the movie itself or for the web series that inspired them? Well, listen, either or, yeah. So indeed, don't tell Larry was based on a web series. When did you guys do the web series? We did the web series in 2016. Oh my gosh. I wrote 2016 and we released in theaters and on digital VOD for the movie in June 2025. So nice, nine plus year journey. Yeah. I remember from me, the point to don't tell Larry was Greg and I, we were on a weekend sitting together trying to come up with some ideas because we would write a lot together during that time.

And I remember Greg saying, I have an idea for a title of something, but I don't know quite what it would be.

But the title is don't tell Larry and I just started laughing when he said that. And it's like, all right, well, who's Larry and Greg had a seed of like who this Larry could be.

And so we started unraveling a little bit of like almost like unwrapping a mummy of Larry was in the middle.

And we're just kind of unwrapping the mummy of like who this guy could be and what's he all about. And for us, we always think of like really ridiculous things that aren't common in normal entertainment that we see for good reason because sometimes ridiculous ideas can alienate an audience.

But the only ideas that were not alienating us at the time when we were developing the idea for don't tell Larry was the ones that just made us laugh where we just wanted to see something like that so bad on the screen.

And so we would write it. And that was just like the beginning of how Larry came to be. Yeah, and and even going before that. So I worked in reality television for a while and I had a one particular job in development and a very kind man named Larry.

The character is not based off of him. This is just how we get to the title of this. I've had a lot of friends with one of the owners of the company and would always kind of pitch his ideas out and I always liked the ideas but the head of the company just didn't want to have to say no to her friend if it was a pass.

So essentially the development team the lower level development executives would be the ones of the meeting and there's like a running joke of just like don't tell Larry but we're probably not going to like take on any of these ideas.

And that's right like clock that don't tell Larry the character Larry has nothing to do with that really really kind man who was pitching those shows but that title as we were talking about was really funny and so we're like okay.

Who's Larry don't tell Larry okay so someone who's obsessed with the truth who wants to know the truth okay so now we're not telling the truth obsessed person something what could these something be.

Oh maybe it'd be funny if it's in an office what if it escalates we really were just kind of spitballing back and forth some ideas and John and I who were real life co-workers had another real life co-worker named Kiel Kennedy who is this hilarious man who is in the groundlings and he was working as a post production coordinator I believe and just everything he said was just making us laugh and we're like oh okay that guy needs to be Larry like is like that's how we're like putting the pieces together I'm just like okay cool let's write something for this guy.

And there's two people talking about something and he always walks in right at the exact moment they're talking about it and he now we're gonna tell him we're gonna go in the acting direction that he knows what these two are talking about but he's gonna act as if he doesn't so it's like he just literally corners these two people and just that uncomfortable hilarious tension and John I had an outline but then letting the actors kind of then go and riff and improv off of it that's what then like brought the character of Larry to life because Larry originally was just like a co-worker with anger issues.

And then Kiel he kind of took everything up to an 11 and added just his like quirkiness to it and we would give him some improv, prompts and he would just take it to this level that made us uncomfortable but like also which is make us laugh hysterically like if you look at the web series the camera is always shaking because John or I were like on the camera just literally like just holding in our laughter.

It was just a tattoo we just have to utilize this man in this concept and just I just had to like make this thing into something bigger like it just people that like the web series we put it out there wanted to some festivals we put it online and people are like well so you're gonna do with it and we tried to make it into a TV show and pitch it out as a TV show and you can only take the idea of escalating things so long and then it's like well why not a 90 minute movie and a kind of serve itself for that and the beginning point of the web series and the end point of the web series ended up being very similar to the beginning point of the movie and the end point of the movie.

We just kind of expanded the world. Sure. I did web series back in the day two and I always hated that question. What are you gonna do with it? Everybody always asked him. What are you gonna do with it? It's like I don't know you just watched it. Enjoy it. I don't know.

Yeah, we make something else. You just did this. What else are you gonna do? Yeah. So how do you make money off of this? I'm like I don't know. This baby version is great. Are you gonna make a grown-up version? Yeah, exactly.

Well, it's crazy to now it's like the baby version can make more money than the grown-up version because it's like these web series that we used to make.

Now they could get a million subscribers on these ideas and then next thing you know you got Coca-Cola buying ad space on it. It's nuts. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. When I say baby I don't mean it was actually a baby version. Just that it was...

No, no. That's what that's the way people treated them for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, they were they were cute seed ideas and that I think for us when Greg and I made the web series for Don't Tell Larry we did.

We wanted to expand these characters out and so we did we wanted to see if we could sell it as a pilot to a TV show so we could do all these episodes kind of like the office but you know Dwight might kill you at the end of the episode or something.

It's structured a lot like I mean everyone's talking about verticals and those vertical content and honestly it's just like it's what we were all doing with the web series just it's a different orientation now and it's more intentional I guess the approach but we were making these web series episodes with what's a catchy way to get into the episode like you know Don't Tell Larry but I have to his girlfriend at the company party last night. Yeah.

Start and then you I'm not a cliffhanger or it's like oh no now I have to see what happens next like that framework was still there. It's back then now that seems to be what everyone's doing.

I love how verticals pretend like they've invented the soap opera. Yeah. You know what I mean like yeah you soap opera these are just really really short so tennis soap opera. Yeah we've seen it we get it.

But the acting's worse it is and phone goes up. That's all it is. Yeah. Yeah. So a TV version of this would remind me of The Increasingly Poor Decisions of Todd Margaret.

It's a BBC show with David Cross where he he gets a job and then he keeps making these really bad decisions and starts with him in an office and I think it ends with the end of the world.

Every decision he makes just makes things worse and to me it would be the model for Don't Tell Larry the TV series but just to circle back I love he came up with the idea and and all that but did you have any touch points of like oh this is what it should be like when you were coming up with the idea was it like oh it should be like the office or were you what were you watching to kind of get yourself in the right head space.

The movie itself I would say so once originally is more of a lighter I mean there was some darkness in the web series but it's really more like it's just like it was comedy and then there was just like I hinted darkness at the end that and we have an unreleased final episode that actually you never included that does get pretty super dark.

But then once when he realized like okay we want this office world but I think we dark John I really didn't want to embrace the darkness and you like the idea of this becoming kind of almost a thriller dare I say even like some horror elements at different points in time I love I'm always pushing for yeah I love that I know like the cable guy was kind of like that I know John's it just a huge big Lebowski fan and I and then Coen brothers and I'd seen big Lebowski a while ago but John like kept talking about it and then I was like watching it again and I just kept watching it.

And just like the way it was shot the way that I was laughing the way that they just they take something that's like unserious at all just like I want like my rug back right and then it's like treat with such seriousness it's because the character is so passionate about something that's so seemingly small like I just love that element.

So that's what it's like with Susan like the situation she turns something that didn't need to be to life or death into literal life literal life or death which I love I think there's a lot of inspiration from that and of course I really love office space which I watched a few times as well just that like that draw like that kind of gross.

But not in this just like life. Yeah, yeah, the work thing I like that. Yeah, and I don't like the comedies nowadays I feel like everyone plays it too safe and I we like the idea like let's push the envelope a bit and just make something that we want to make and not make something that we think other people will want some you know to see.

Yeah, it felt feel like a throwback in the right way and I don't know what I mean by right way but it didn't feel like it was nostalgia fest but it felt and it's done that it didn't feel fresh but it felt comfortable.

I was like, oh, I know this kind of like, oh, we're just doing a comedy and it felt good. It had goofy characters that had this fun energy to it and I was like, I missed movies that feel like this.

I really I was really taken by it and I really enjoyed it. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. I wonder some of that is from the the web series sort of aesthetic from about the time that you were making this web series.

You know that movie at CollegeHumor made called Coffee Town. Is that the Glenn Howerton movie? Yeah, yeah, it's a Glenn Howerton and it has a similar sort of vibe to it and I'm like, I wonder if there's any kind of connection with the because they made that movie about 2016.

Also, it's like it's 2013. Yeah, a few years before. I'm not seeing it. No, I will check it out though. I actually really like it is. I don't know because the vibe there's a vibe to it. There's just kind of a thing to it. I think sometimes comedy is like taste. It's like you either like liquorice or you don't like liquorice. It's a bad example because I know most people don't like liquorice but people who like liquorice they like it.

Right. But I think for comedy for Greg and I, I think we like weird things. When we're writing together, Greg will just throw out weird ideas where I'm like, you're the only person who can come up with that.

Which to Greg's credit. He's like, oh, what about an image of like a raisin on a pencil and I'm like, what the fuck did you why are you thinking of that?

I love it. Like let's do it. Let's figure something out. Like it's just what's the weird like what's the weird thing and like I like weird things too.

If I give you a list of movies, I love to watch. Those are like the weird, weird disease to love. And to me, it's like the whole idea of a movie is it's supposed to be entertaining. It's supposed to be fun to watch.

I hate it. If I go into a movie theater and I'm not entertained and I'm just being talked to or preached at or you know, I'm like, get the out of here.

Like there's you're a movie. So or a TV show. I mean, it goes both ways. I mean, it even goes for a book. If I give a book, preach it to me. I throw it away. I'm like, I'll take a new one.

But it's like for us, it's like we weren't laughing. If we weren't entertained while we were writing this, then we weren't going to stop.

And so we wanted to make a movie that we wanted to watch. And I think maybe why other people gravitate towards it. Like I feel like if the four of us were in the same room together and we had a bunch of food and beer and we were going to hang out, we could all four of us probably agree on a movie really quick that we would want to watch, you know, why we were sitting there.

And it's like that's kind of what don't tell Larry is. I mean, I think to your point where it's a throwback comedy where like everybody in the room could just watch it and have a good time. And it didn't have to be about, you know, whatever. I don't know what I'm trying to say with that.

But I'm just like, Terry really were not, you know, we're not trying to be political. It's like the opposite of that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like an a story can still have a through line like a theme in ours is like, you know, karma. Like if you do the wrong thing enough times, all that stuff is going to come back to you.

But that's not being preachy. That's like me saying like you throw the apple up. It's going to fall down. You know, don't be angry. Once it drops on your head. That's just life. Like we're not saying something that nobody doesn't know.

You know, right. Yeah. It's not a metaphor for trauma that we're trying to work through. It's fine. It's fine for a movie just to entertain and give you a good time while you're there. And good performance isn't good. Like just competence. Yeah. Right. Well, the next time I.

My list is talk about the OPM, the OPM, my favorite segment of the whole thing. You got to have that OPM checked before it turns into something more serious. Well, it's about to go malignant. Let me tell you what.

So we like to do. We got the segment. The OPM because every movie has three things that happen in it. It's the obsession. It's the pivot and it's the miracle.

We talked about the obsession, the thing that like you're like, oh, we have to make this movie because it's this or make this web series because it's this, which is great. I mean, I think any time you have something that makes you laugh. That is so powerful that you should act on it.

And it was the gas to keep you laughing like it deserves to be showed to other people. But rarely in the progress from the obsession to the screen. Is it a straight line? There's always that moment where something happens where you need to pivot the plan that ends up being an opportunity in disguise.

So what was one of your big pivots guys. Yeah, I'm sure you've talked about the movie or the web series. It's up to you. Yeah, well, for the movie. And this is not going to be unique to a lot of filmmakers making movies between 2020 and 2023, but COVID really obviously we there was so much we had to change.

Are you shooting? We were filming in Dallas, Texas in the height of the Omicron wave of the pandemic. So what 21 and top of 22.

Okay, you know, winter 2022. And it was the sort of thing where you know, ultimately I think eight weeks ahead of time is when we actually picked like our final dates. We were going back and forth.

John and I scouted dozens, not even hundreds of office buildings in like the Dallas, Texas area looking. I know Dallas way too well. I know. So do I.

And when we decided not to film in Los Angeles, but just everything was a moving train. So even though we knew we're hearing reports like out there's another wave that's coming in.

There was so much essentially, you know, spend that already was in place to with cast and crew and locations and just everything that needs to kind of come together in order for movie to get made and for production to happen.

So we knew what we were up against or so we we had an idea of what was up against, but we were doing COVID testing every day and it's like the first day on set.

We had I don't think we had anyone test positive day two we had three people test positive.

So we lost art department on day two and art department of his spending time close to other people and I can't see everyone all the time and I'm sure the masks made their time to be take over.

You can't you don't know what people are doing outside of the film set and just there's like every day I wake up at like five a.m. and see the results of the COVID test.

But we got another one test positive and test positive and we're dropping out like flies and then when one of our actors got it we said okay.

Obviously now there's certain scenes we can't film, but we can kind of create a schedule around that we can look at really creative or we can shut down completely start back up in six weeks or so to see if everyone's available and move far with the production then.

And it was not an easy decision to make but we had a week long set of night shoots coming up where we're filming outside on the forest where we have one of our actors Patrick's not even wearing our shirts and the scenes and the weather ended up being in like the 20s and we have to dig a hole in the ground and the dirt around.

So these were all signs saying yeah let's maybe just like push production and so that was a big pivot fortunately we were able to get everyone back into place in six weeks and also what we decided to shut down it was before the scenes with Ed Begley Jr., Dot-Marie Jones and those were obviously bigger scenes where there was more of a spend there so it's like that was money that wasn't technically spent yet.

So it's like okay we move everything down that could help and I think the blessing and disguise there was John is a fantastic editor started cutting the next day we were shut down and we started seeing what was working what wasn't and six weeks later we got a pickup shoot was doing it yeah we start with the back up and we realized okay actor performance is there was some notes that we had with Larry that we're like okay we were talking about going in this direction but actually we need to change it up a little bit for these scenes and I think it really made it a better film as a result of all the work that we did.

Of all the headaches and all the stress that being said there's a lot of headaches and a lot of stress that's that's nuts but yeah that pivot was huge us getting shut down but that's the thing I think when you when you all fall down you got to rise from the ashes you got to build from that you know and that's what we did and I think it helped us make a better movie because of it because it was very chaotic getting into the start of that production.

And it would have been bad news for us to be in that mindset all the way through so when we were able to go back home lick our wounds see what we got and then actually triage and be like okay this is how we really need to go about doing it when we came back we were able to crush it with our limited days and our limited budget because I mean obviously you know there was a lot of things we suffered because of it but the movie didn't suffer which is the most important thing anyways.

Well that's one of those things that I think that filmmakers could probably benefit from because I make a lot of movies really low budget movies and a lot of times you'll start to shoot and you'll have a couple days and then you know it really goes lives their lives and comes back and shoots some more stuff but more and more we're starting to shoot in big chunks like we got to get it right now we'll shoot most of the movie in like a big chunk and we don't do camera tests and we're not doing big rehearsals and stuff but what you got was basically really involved camera test.

And you got to work and feel how it worked and then go away and come back with a better idea of the plan and I feel like that could be built into a lot of these independent films where people are trying to get it all at once maybe get a little bit see how it goes and then come back and tackle the rest.

Yeah. Man I agree with that 100% I think the ideal situation to for independent films and it's like one thing I would love to do and I still haven't been able to do it maybe one of these days my dream will come true but as I'm shooting there's an editor behind you edit it because to your point it's like if someone is starting to put together the things that you shot an editor can be like yo

you're missing this or you got to think about this or hey you got to watch this for an order for you to be like oh okay you know Stanley Kubrick he literally had a trailer that had like reel-to-reel editors in it that like you know when he shot Barry Lyndon and they went around Ireland shooting and stuff they're literally was like a big trailer that had two Steenbeck editors in it or whatever and or Moviolas and literally there was a guy editing there on set

and they would like develop film and deliver the mags to set what they were at it and he would like go in there and see like what's going on what's what what are we doing there's two of them because Stanley would be over there on the other one editing alongside with him wherever they were they were but it's like I mean it's crazy to think about it then I mean we're shooting digital like literally on the computer I'm talking to you on I literally can cut 4k on it instantaneously

and turn a scene around the next day to see what's what's working but there's so much value in that but it's like I think because of the time and money it's just like a lot of times it's like we don't like Greg and I wanted this because I was always like

like in a champion but it's like who are we paying to edit no one we don't have the money for it's like no yeah and it's like I was editing the movie so it's like I got a wait till we're done because I'm with Greg directing on the set so what are we are doing well you know if you give the editors the power to edit on set they become the directors because they're just going to sit there and complain about everything

everything not that I don't love editors but that's the best time to go why isn't there a shot of this reaction who the hell didn't shoot this reaction shut up Rob or running out of time but then it would be great to be like you're right we do need that shot let's go get it I mean there were a lot of times when Greg and I when we were

editing don't tell Larry you know months later it was like oh man we should have got that shot you know like there's always things missing you're you can't bat a thousand and you know and when you're making a movie it's like when you plan for a movie and when like right now like everything is in theory like if you do this and do that then your movie will work and if you do this and plan for this and if you make all your shot lists and blah blah blah blah

theory theory theory theory theory when you are on set and boots on the ground and actors are there and everybody's asking you a million questions you are no longer practicing you are doing it and it's a completely different energy it's a completely different mindset and then when you're all done you know and then I'm I'm with you find people on this

podcast word back to theory like well really you know if you do this and this and have an editor on set and it's like it's like theory and practice theory and practice said what is it that Mike Tyson line it's like everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face yeah it's so true we got punched many times every hour

everything got punched so many times one of the reasons we didn't film a Los Angeles is simply because the ease of being able to use a process trailer and drive around for all of our driving scenes the day of we were going to start a trailer there was a

lot of the house storm and we were grounded and we ended up shooting French overs inside a car in the parking lot of the production house we were working out of that day which we could have literally filmed which we could have done that in Los Angeles we could have yeah so it's but the other thing to though is locations you know Greg and I were looking for offices because like a lot of this movie takes place in an office and we needed to take over a whole office suite you know for our world of good lakes cruises that this movie takes that the movie takes place and we are going to do that.

The movie takes place and and you know in order for us to like get into an office anywhere in Los Angeles at that capacity to shoot was costing us at least 15 to 20 thousand dollars plus

I'm on the and not like that because it's covid so we need every right you need the actual office that set you need to like a theory you want a production office you need to place for actors to go you need a place for everyone to be socially distant for each other right everyone is there so

feed them where they eat in especially just I mean yeah I think we get six we had an area where covid testing was happening I mean we ended up having like eight different office suites that we rented out for probably with the price would have been here for one or two literally took over just a building essentially and we were the we

took over a floor yeah we don't tell Larry the big gold towers whatever the big trumpet tower basically what they look like we literally took over a whole floor we had production offices in there there was a floor where you could eat they we did covid testing there was make up there was a camera room there was everything there was no chance and hell we were doing that in Los Angeles unfortunately so did it was like cheaper to fly everyone out.

Yeah that was my next question actually was so did it pay off even having to house and travel and all that kind of stuff it was less money yeah the actual cause of that the ripple effects of what we would have been shut down for covid if we were an L.A.

It's possible we could have been I could have I think it would less likely but yeah there's you know I probably know for sure I think it was a different mentality total like like L.A. crew in Texas crew can I so one dumb question

I have for you is why did you shoot it during covid like I understand that we have the desire to shoot but like it's 2021 the world is still in a weird place and you're like this the time to pull everyone together go to a different state and shoot this thing like why do it on hard mode guys yeah this is well by the way after

the experience that like now I feel like I can do anything this I feel like it's a little from it so for that perspective like nothing's going to be harder I feel like ever that I'm going to do the making don't tell Larry so for that reason I'm actually very grateful for that experience I think we were

John and I again this is an idea we started writing in 2018 the initial concept was from 2016 we were so eager and excited to get this idea out there it's like we just couldn't wait any longer and also in around 2020 or 2021 when fundraising began

the idea was to to shoot it around them but also at the point where we were thinking okay like covid it was going to die down I mean there's a part in 2021 where really was getting better and we were waiting for that moment to get better just we then gotten to motion and all

said we now we heard wait there's now a new wave coming in and obviously if we knew that was going to happen ahead of time yes we would have definitely waited so it's just to unfortunately align perfectly to as difficult for us but

yeah I mean I'm still glad we did it I have no regrets overall I mean the yesterday's thing that would have shang and we talk about that but I'm still glad that we did it and you know it was meant to be though the way it was meant to be I mean that's that's awesome that's incredible I'm really glad you guys made it I just that spirit of time is so weird it's this like black hole in my mind there's two years of like I don't know what to do with what anybody was doing and yeah

yeah with not now then when exactly though it's like if you know who knows what you know me we may not be here tomorrow like it's like at this point it's like why wait like just why are we waiting for it was on us to do this if we have the luxury of waiting for to be able to do this is because someone is paying us to do this which is nice a nice problem to have but no one was paying us to do this so we were the ones in control this so let's just do this I think I would have thrown caution to the wind myself would have been just like you know what I'm doing this thing

no time like the present we were driven I mean that the thing why Greg and I you know we Greg and I have done a lot together web series and things like that you know on top of don't tell Larry Greg and I had other different shoots that we've done of web series and shorts and things like that and so the thing about both of us were very driven people like once we get an idea in our head that we're going to do something we don't want to listen to anybody anymore about how we can't do it

we're like water on cement we're just going to find a crack to keep going down to get to wherever we're going to go and like that's what it was on don't tell Larry with all this stuff it was like

yeah fuck it we're just going to find a crack and keep going you know because at the end of the day we knew the movie if we made the movie we wanted to make it would still it would be worth

even though it was absolute hell to do it you know it was absolute hell but but you to Greg's point like I have no regrets on what happened and how we did it it it was the way it was supposed to be and that trial by fire you know I think nothing nothing is going to be as hard as don't tell Larry

you say that now and then you know I said now I held waiting for me good good thanks a lot for jinx and everything I mean everything on the show has a bit of a survivor's bias because you know if you didn't make the movie wouldn't be here so we all

like for sure for sure well so these are all great disappointments and things that you turned into great moments of success but what was the miracle in the movie the thing that that happened that never should

have happened we're probably thinking the same thing I think so is it is it involve a ladybug oh I know that's better than I was thinking I can't say was that not playing that ladybug

so we were filming a scene out of dumpster where a ladybug needs to fly in and land on our actress and she gives it as a sign and then it flies away that was one of three times the movie this was going to happen each time the ladybug was to land there it was not just a ladybug a yellow and black ladybug

It serves as a warning you know we have this motif of yellow and black as our you know our color theme and every time that color comes up it is a warning and Susan you know views the ladybug that shows up as a sign like oh this is good luck but of course it's the opposite and it like encourages

her due to this to make a decision she should make and so when we're filming just outside of the dumpster in January in her Texas and we you know we have our actress like saying like keep your hand out flat and that's where like the bug will kind of land

while we were filming an actual ladybug landed on our hand while we were recording both actors in that scene just played it off as everyone like behind the camera their mouths were like what?

I had to think everyone had masks so we couldn't see anyone's mouths but like you got to just assume that's what everyone else was doing too

and it came in at the right moment and flew at the right moment and we could not believe what happened we didn't see any other ladybugs throughout the shoot it was just at that space at that time and not only was it a ladybug it wasn't actually like yellowish black ladybug

it was going to run ladybug we didn't even know for sure that was a thing we were going to do something you know and post but because that happened it was so real we removed the other moments in the movie where we were supposed to happen

because to do a CGI thing they only had the real thing it didn't work anymore to take away from that so that was just like still like a chills thinking about that just like how did that happen?

That's amazing that's amazing but Greg I don't know if you remember this though I remember when we came back to Texas and we drove into the office like the first day when we came back

I remember inside the car in the van there were a bunch of ladybugs inside the van that were yellow and black. I don't remember that so

then maybe that was my niece hope maybe it was hope in me but I remember there were like a bunch of these yellow and black spotted ladybugs in the car that just like came in through the dash or whatever

and they were just flying around in the car and I remember my niece because she knew the script she knew the story she's like oh my god John you should capture these for the movie

I'm like we're not shooting that scene for like eight days or these are going to die but it's like that means they're here or whatever

and I guess but to Greg that the Greg's first time seeing them and when we were shooting for sure but I remember the first time I saw those was when I first pulled into the parking lot of that building coming back to shoot

and they were like inside the van all of a sudden it was weird it was it was like something from a Walt Disney movie from the 70s

it's crazy that you didn't see it as a warning you wrote it as a warning oh I know here's the kicker from this we all said oh my god it's a sign from the universe a day later is when we shut down for COVID

there it is the actor tested positive and we were like you know what we should shut down it sucks that our by our own design a miracle is an omen

at least you had some warning yeah yeah I tell you what we lucked out because that I mean you guys saw the movie that moment

with the ladybug in the movie it was like I mean that was exactly how Greg and I envisioned it when we wrote it and it was like the only thing that really happened the way we wrote it is that damn ladybug which is like near impossible

and I remember I was very confident that we'd be able to do some sort of digital ladybug and make that whole thing work and I know Greg was kind of doubtful

but you know Greg was trusting like all right well we just we'll figure it out and I know it's not going to be easy but we'll make something work

but damn that ladybug the way it it just showed up on patty's shoulder and and Molly grabs it and it just flies away and they look and in that live shot

we cut when we cut to the wide we just had him like act like it flew away and you know the bug you don't see it and with the sound

it just makes you think it's there and it's like we got it I guess we can move on this is fantastic the funny thing is watching the movie I remember that moment I didn't think anything of it I didn't think how the hell these guys give a ladybug to land on her on her right but I'm glad it didn't take you out of the movie you're not supposed to think that anyway

I mean I make independent films and I know the resources we have and I didn't even clock it I didn't clock that as a thing that would be hard to do you know what I mean like which is crazy maybe I shouldn't be making movies

no no I don't think so at all I think I don't think you should be making movies either Rob no but I think when you're making a movie I think even the filmmakers imagine I think because you're a filmmaker you have more of an imagination

that all it tells me is that we captured your imagination that you weren't thinking about the logistics of it not at all

it's kind of like the first time I watch the movie Fitzcarraldo I don't know if you've ever seen that movie the boat movie yeah the boat movie where the the whole movie is about this guy trying to like take a big giant steamboat over a mountain onto the other into the Amazon

and when you watch the movie you're like wow that's crazy that's impossible well guess what to make that movie that they really did drag a steamboat over one side of the mountain to the other and people died and you know a Werner Herzog almost got shot for making the movie

Klaus Kinski almost murdered Werner Herzog I mean people were like half the crew was gonna die making that movie and it's true because it's crazy

and it like at all what we were asking for is just a ladybug that's yellow with black spots and only one person died because of it

only one yeah I gotta watch that movie now dude it's nuts I love it I've actually I've never seen Fitzcarraldo but I always bring it up when I'm on some horrible project because it's such a great metaphor for getting something over the mountain where it's like

yeah you gotta build the boat you gotta push it over the mountain like we just gotta go that's the role of this nonsense yeah but you know what that's how you know making Larry was and I think any production is that way is your movie that you're making is the boat

and it just feels impossible to just drag it over the mountain to the next river over because you're in the wrong river

because like usually when you start shooting you're like why are we here why did we decide this why did we decide with this crew

and why did we decide with this camera and why did we decide this day and why is the parade over there and now you're taking the boat and dragging it up the damn mountain to make your movie on the other side

I mean Fitzcarraldo's a bad example because when they get to the boat to the other side it sinks but I mean it's really fun

you had a lot of time to watch that movie you're gonna be watching it and now we had about a good end of half listen it's really a metaphor for the independent cinema in America where you push it over the mountain and then nobody gives a shit and it sucks

yeah sorry that that's the cynicism creeping around the around the edges but that's the reality I you know Greg and I worked so hard making don't tell Larry we're very proud of the film that we made we've showed it to audiences in the theater

and all the jokes landing like everything that we wanted to do it did exactly what we wanted it to do

and it's funny the movie came out even though a lot of people watched it and they loved it I mean still nobody knows about this movie it's like it's it's it might as well not exist I mean that's kind of what it feels like but the reason why you make a movie is because you want to make it

and over time the audience will find the movie but it's like I'm proud of the movie I made with Greg

I love making movies so much even if nobody is going to watch them I will still make it so I can watch it later

because I know I believe I can be entertained you know and if you got an audience of one I think you can have an audience of every one eventually

I mean I know it feels that way John I don't know if I've even told you this I've been experiencing things over the last few weeks and months of getting random emails from a man in Cleveland

for example be like hey I saw your movie I thought it was really awesome this was so fun I watched it with my wife

I'm the film said I was just on these past two weeks somehow I some I brought up that I was on like don't tell Larry that oh yeah I was just watching that like yeah have you seen that movie

it's like actually I directed that you know code right my mom was wearing a don't tell Larry shirt and she's at the beach here and someone stopped her

and I was like oh my my son just was watching that with his friend during high school and I was asking them about it and they said mom you wouldn't like this movie it's too inappropriate for you

so it's like this is getting it a lot of them that feels like it's not being watched but it is getting out there it is people are finding it there's so many more people who would love this movie movie who just haven't seen it yet

and I think that's what the confidence that I still have in this movie is that there are people who really really like it that's what you said you know

licorice John not everyone likes licorice but there's enough people out there that like licorice that once they realize that licorice exists they're going to be obsessed about it I say just like talk about licorice with their friends exactly yeah exactly

do we need to go through the weekly topic or we've been discussing it let's let's touch on it you want to introduce it yeah so okay so then

give us a good transition I will yeah speaking of that that's a terrible that was a great transition that's what most transitions are anyway

this project we talked about existed as a web series what were the opportunities that you had bringing it from web series to a bigger project that you wouldn't have had just starting a project from scratch I mean I know you have the chemistry with the actors was everybody

game to come back had you learned a bunch of lessons did it help to the web series help you make the movie I mean obviously I think obviously but can you tell us a little bit

about how you resurrected this project as a film yeah I think the the way in which we had to reinvent the web series to turn into a movie I do think that we found

something that we really liked that we were really a passion about that showed people the kind of the dark twisted humor that John and I have that we wanted to put it into the movie

so it's one thing to have us tell people we wrote a script we'd love for you to read it and then in your mind you have to kind of envision what it could be but it's actually has something visual that people can

refer to was really helpful and the fact that we did get into some really good festivals the New York Television Festival which unfortunately is no longer an existence it did really well there I know like we I think we were nominated for some awards there I think just the fact that it was really well received we put it on mind just I put it up on a YouTube

channel and then like within three days it got picked up again another defunct website Digg.com just a front page and just was like oh people are really liking this so we had something to show people look we we made this for $200

because that was the cost of maybe the food we bought and you like paying our our buddy to run sound or something right like that was it imagine if we had a lot more than just $200

what we could do with that I think that did help us a lot that we had something already made and that was it was 10 minutes long if you want to watch an episode of that was 2 to 3 minutes long and it's not a big ask for someone I mean now maybe it feels that way but back then it wasn't a big ask to have someone

watching us 2 or 3 minutes that's not a huge time commitment and that also gives them a sense of what it is that is in our heads

yeah because the character of Larry is quite I mean this is a weird thing to say quite nuanced you know that's it's a weird character and in anybody else's hands would be completely different

what do you try to explain that character on paper I think would be very difficult that yes great it's very way up but that's a good example to of like of how important casting is because there's a lot of great actors out there who be great Larry's Kiel has his own flavor and robustness of subtlety where it's like he can make something subtle

that will be loud and what's really interesting just about cinema is subtlety is usually loud in cinema and in fact it's like sometimes the loudest like something subtle can be the more satisfying it is

and it's like Kiel can just do it naturally and I think part of it has to do with him just writing sketches and performing every week at the groundlings you know it's one of those things to where it's like with your filmmaker you're collaborating with actors the actors are not necessarily your clay like in your molding them

Kiel already had all the stuff that he was bringing to the table that made Larry that helped us make Larry better than originally what we wanted him to be and Greg and I were just pointing him in the right direction where he's like I'm ready Hulk smash

you're like great but Hulk smash that way Hulk smash this way yeah there you go and then we get through the mind but it's like you know that's our job like I can't make Hulk

like you bring Hulk and then we point Hulk towards the direction we ate all the smash and that's what Greg and I did but Kiel it was just like you know he'd be like all right what do you guys want what do you want this what's this day what's going on it's like it's this is the

pee-drinking oh yeah yeah yeah the the pee-drinking okay great all right let's try it well so the pee-drinking is actually a question I have for you so there are some

gags that were repeated from the web series into the movie and I don't mean that in a in a poor way but but I get it like gags at work or

gags at work how is that transferring the gags that you liked or the gags that didn't you didn't like like what parts of it did you bring with you from the web series and what did

you decide to bring with you we really wanted that pee scene that's really in it but we you know when Greg and I started writing the script we took all the beats collectively from the web series as a skeleton to create the screenplay

and along the way the story the characters kind of just revealed things what needed to happen and what didn't need to happen but the thing that Greg and I really engineered what we really wanted to see happen in the movie

is we really wanted that pee-drinking scene to stay in the movie and a lot of people told us when we were pitching it that we couldn't do the pee-drinking scene

which is like one more reason for us to be like well guess what we're doing it and not just thinking on watching it I guarantee it and it's not just going to be the web series pee-drinking this is cinematic

pee-drinking this is like epic pee-drinking with the lights when we were shooting everyone on set that has I mean the only people who really lived this world for like the nine years or eight years before we got to set was Greg and myself

everybody else on set even our like our cinematographer and everyone we're like we're shooting all the pee-drinking stuff and people are going like what the fuck is this movie

like like nobody was laughing on set nobody thought we were making a funny movie until we cut it and then people watch it like oh that was funny that was good

it's literally people thought we were insane when we were when we were shooting that movie I know nobody thought we were making a good movie

Greg might feel otherwise but I think that's okay I felt like nobody thought we were making a good movie at all I mean we were just talking to somebody else who was like you know it's hard to tell how the movie is turning out while you're in it unless you know exactly what's in your head

and so yeah nobody knows if anything's going to be good or bad you can be empty it feels great and it's terrible on screen or vice versa

yeah right my experience on that was people were laughing and enjoying it I could see people questioning us and now like how is this going to cut together

because we were also filming things out of order so they're like oh wow so the character goes from being like you know we're shooting like one of the first scenes in the office of the movie

and the next scene is like the very end scene in the movie in the office and it's our characters in totally different places at that time and they're actually rushed it yeah and then everyone else who just not part of it or just doesn't know the script religiously like John and I did just I think couldn't comprehend how something like this would come together

because it was we were filming a moment that's like straight up comedy then slapstick and we're then shooting a moment that's like really serious and dark and really dramatic acting

and it's like wait what and I I just give John so much kudos for and I'll give myself a little pat of the back too

just we had such a specific vision that like we were pretty much in lockstep, being like yes this is how it's going to go we really talked in this shot list we talked through really where we wanted the characters to be at different points in time and that just I think allowed us to still get something that felt cohesive in the end even though on set it felt like what is going on

I think a lot of people had questioned that it worked in the script though I mean and that's why when you're out of order and everything and you know it's nice when you have written the material that you're shooting you have more confidence in what you're shooting

so even when everybody else is like what Greg and I like oh yeah this is a part where that and this and this and then we have that because we know this is going to this is the setup we know we got the build or this build that we're going to set up this way we're going to palp that way so we're building here in the middle like we know and it was chaotic it was just absolutely chaos but also the match just to go back to your question to answer that question

that was like we like the web series that has started off with an invite to a party we like the idea that it comes out to be to death

and we love the fact that characters were had to be in a situation where they were drinking pee and then we like reverse engineered a plot to fit those points there was a whole point you know the web series Larry has a girlfriend

that's reference our first few drafts had this Larry's girlfriend character that ended up just getting written out it just didn't work it was just we were trying to force something in and there's a lot more elements from the web series we tried to include it and just wasn't fitting to be getting we wanted the ending we wanted and the pee-drinking scene we wanted it was like these things we're anchoring this movie sure sure well so that's what's funny about writing for web series

especially the short web series that you were making I like I was making web series but mine were freaking too long but the characters building through the movie and in the web series you need the character to come in fully formed like right off the bat but in the movie you get to reveal who it is so you don't really need I hate to say you don't need the girlfriend character but you know he doesn't necessarily need all that he's bringing something else to the movie that he couldn't bring to the web series

yeah yeah so I have one final question about reinvention and it's it's really like how did you know that don't tell Larry had the legs to become something else

because a lot of times we fall in love with something and you really work at it and it's just it's just not there

but you don't realize it and clearly this is not the case with don't tell Larry but how did you know I made you laugh and you had some legs early on but I'm sure that that's been of like 2019 you're like I don't know

I think there was so much trial and error obviously from taking the web series to trying to make it a TV show

to us wanting to still work at it I think was the first of all sign of like this is something we both were really passionate about and pretty determined to get made one way or the other but I think my moment of realization was it was probably in that 2019 timeframe when we have a finished first draft and we're reading the draft and we say this is super fun

this movie in this iteration is never going to get made because we have a scene where our main character is in a canoe and lake Michigan and climbing up the side of a boat to with the cake at a hand to try to hand it to our boss we were just writing a story that we wanted to write we're thinking about the practicality of like the logistics of how it actually got made and the reality was it's like okay this required we want to make this movie we need to page-one rewrite

and rewrites can be the most daunting part of screenwriting for so many people I could not wait to get back into that script and start from scratch if I had to and that's was like oh this is this will have legs because of how excited I am to actually work on it

for however long needs to be worked on to get it to that place where we can make this that the burning passion makes sense that it would pull you in and keep you keep you on fire and yeah I've had great ideas that didn't last a couple of weeks I can't do this anymore yeah too bad too because it's such a great idea you like it and then it's like something doesn't quite work and then it's just like it's more trouble than it's worth yeah

you know for me I could always see it I knew I could see Larry as a movie and there was like these different like little vignettes of things that I could see and that was the thing that that always drove me even though we were rewriting and rewriting I knew I could see it as a movie I knew I could see that this would be a good movie we would have to like you find it but I love what you're saying too where it's like sometimes you get these ideas

and then they kind of go away but part of it too is I think ideas always come I think ideas come to you every day like there are many ideas but it's like I think sometimes you have to if you can see something enough and you are determined enough to not let go of it you have to just force yourself to keep writing it you know my favorite quote about writing is from Stephen King he in his book he writes about writing feels like the equivalent of shoveling shit sitting down

like most of the time you don't feel like you're getting anything done at all and Greg and I would write every morning super early in the morning and it was like most of the time it would felt like it's like we were getting nowhere and we wrote so many drafts and I remember too when we scrapped it it was exciting to have a better idea of where the movie needed to be but man we wrote so much that we had to throw away because of it

but I think part of it is just showing up all the time to do it to finish it your original ideas that inspire you I think if it inspires you in the beginning it's worth it to keep doing even if you lose that inspiration in the middle somewhere towards the end if you keep pushing through the inspiration does come back in a weird way and I think for me when the movie was done and we're laughing in the movie theater it was like

oh yeah that's right this was a great idea I actually am glad we did this yeah that makes sense that's awesome that is such a perfect answer from the from the both of you I love it so real quick I have three quick questions for you so yeah three two two two it doesn't matter so we're doing two and three more than two less than five so you're at the end of the road now if you go back in time and tell yourself something at the start of the whole journey

you could choose if this is 2022 or this is 2016 but you go back in time and tell yourself something at the start of the whole journey what would be the one piece of advice you'd give yourself I am 20 pieces of advice but you just said for one it would be to ensure that our tax credits are in line that we'll actually get tax credits for filming in the jurisdiction that we're filming that feels like a box to unpack that we don't have time to unpack

no we don't have time to unpack this one but yeah that is a good one mine is which is almost kind of weirdly piggy's back piggybacks off of Greg's though is that trust your intuition always and your gut like never question your gut and that would be the advice I would give myself because all the times we went against our gut and our intuition it fucked us and so I think your gut and your intuition is a beautiful thing

and a gift that you have as a human being and you need to listen to it always even if it takes you down the path where you start sneaking into somebody's house to steal a hard drive or worse if your gut tells you to do and you show it you should definitely even if your gut is vomiting from all the COVID yeah even if it takes you to a place where you have to drink your own pee it's all good yeah so there's one more question Rob why don't you take it

we're going to take this here we come in for a landing everybody here we go all right guys thank you so much for coming on now um thank you where can they find the movie and more importantly where can they find you guys on the interwebs So Don't Tell Larry is currently streaming on Tubi, on Amazon Prime if you have an Amazon Prime membership it is still on Apple TV you can rent it there and American Airlines

it's been on American Airlines since April so the our current license deal is up at the end of this month so if you're flying on American Airlines before Halloween definitely check it out there as well do you have a physical release for uh uh you have DVD yeah we have a DVD as well good news director's commentary yeah go to Amazon buy the DVD yeah if you like the sound of my voice and John's voice we talked about the movie for 90 minutes

and behind the scenes as everything's happening which is super cool we have some fun blooper reels and yeah there are elements of and also extended scenes too like there's so much that didn't make the final cut that both John and I love that it's cool that that still exists i think so important to physical media because there's so many things that exist that you know now there's not a way to really watch that

so i do value the fact that there's a physical media version of this movie totally and so are you guys on any uh social media's? the movie itself on instagram is at dtl the movie on tiktok it's also the same we're more uh relevant on instagram i'd say right now youtube as well dtl the movie on instagram Greg Porper g-r-e-g p-o-r-p-e-r it's like i'm on a uh tongue in two way um Customer service representatives to make sure they're hearing

grag what's your last 14th of japan? he has a peter oh r.e.s always like that but that's where uh that uh can be found there what do i do? i'm also on instagram as jschimke j-s-c-h-i-m-k-e just look for lips

that's me just look for lips i haven't changed it i the when i first started my instagram account i put this uh it's a close-up photo of my lips and i it's been that way ever since i've never changed it tradition you got a trust your gut yeah my gut said to keep it so anyway that's where you can find me come say hello all right well guys thank you again for stopping by and tell us about the movie like i really appreciate it this is a really really

great time it's really great to meet you guys yeah it was nice to meet you dude that was great that was fun thank you to meet you guys thanks for having us all right and that about does it for us if you have any questions about filmmaking or movies in general please email us at indiefilmlodge@gmail.com we'd love to hear from you and we may feature your question in a future show in the meantime tell your friends about us and remember the only thing holding you back is you

so get out there and shoot your feature i'm Rob and i'm Matt we'll see you next time woo! (Music)

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