1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,540 Hey, Robb, what would you do if you got to an Airbnb and discovered it was double-booked? 2 00:00:04,540 --> 00:00:08,960 Well, that depends on if the double-booking was, like, sexy coeds or some kind of... 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:15,100 Freaky theater people. Does that mean you'd hang out with the freaky people? I'm a married man. 4 00:00:15,100 --> 00:00:27,280 Hey, hello, and welcome to Indie Film Lodge, a podcast about the nuts and bolts of independent filmmaking from the bottom up. 5 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:34,320 I'm Matt Jackson. And I'm Robb Padgett. Today we're talking about sound design and mixing, and, you know, other things too. 6 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,720 But we're gonna focus on sound, and with us to talk about it is Travis Greene, 7 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:45,360 Director, producer and sound designer of the fantastic 8 Found Dead. Hey, Travis. Oh, fellas, thanks for having me on. 8 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,600 It's an honor. Of course. We couldn't do this without you. So... 9 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,840 So, I've seen 8 Found Dead. I know Robb's in 8 Found Dead. 10 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:59,400 But I'm gonna guess somebody listening hasn't. Can you give me a quick pitch of what 8 Found Dead is, basically? 11 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:06,280 It's one tale of four different stories kind of intersecting over one long, bloody and horrific night of 12 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,240 Carnage and mayhem. It's um 13 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,360 What happens if you double book an Airbnb and kind of like a 14 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:18,600 It's Goldilocks, a messed-up version of Goldilocks. You know, people trying out different spaces and 15 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:25,320 What fits. And it's basically a whodunit, but we don't really care whodunit. We care who survives 16 00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:27,160 Because we know who's done it 17 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:32,440 We tell you within the first 30 minutes whodunit, and then you have to sit with that for the next 60 minutes. 18 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,920 Kind of they're just slow dread of like how does it happen? It's very 19 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,960 Alfred Hitchcock showing the bomb and then letting the people kind of exist with it 20 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:48,200 Well, you show part of the bomb because it's 8 Found Dead. We see I don't want to spoil the first five minutes of the movie 21 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:53,480 We see somebody die in the first couple minutes of the movie. They're not part of a couple, and then there's three couples. 22 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,800 Somebody will live somebody will die. Yeah, I think there's 10 cast members in it 23 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,760 Which, if you're a filmmaker, aspiring filmmaker listening to this, and you're doing your first feature, 24 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,480 Don't have 10 cast members stick to like three to five 25 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:11,880 Yeah, Robb and I talked about that a lot because, you know, I had a cast of, I think officially, it was a thousand. 26 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:17,080 It was—you had 25 credited characters. Yeah, plus the thousand extras. 27 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,960 And Robb did it where he had like six. So I think, yeah, the advice is, you're correct, 28 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:29,000 Travis. Fewer is always better. 8 Found Dead: start with eight dead people and just two people. Just one found dead. 29 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:35,240 Well, there you go. My favorite review on Letterboxd is: '8 Found Dead, one found dead in front of the TV.' 30 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,480 I love the bad reviews 31 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:44,360 Even though I'm proud of the film, I really respect the creativity of the negative reviews around the film. 32 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:52,680 Sure, yeah, those man those Letterboxd reviews can get real real harsh and you know god bless them people are offended 33 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,440 Yeah, offended they are yeah, how dare you show me this movie 34 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:02,840 I can't believe I just spent 299 on this piece of crap and I'm like well, thank you for your patronage, you know 35 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,400 Mine was free and they still complained 36 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:13,400 So, you know, watching 8 Found Dead, it reminded me of, you know, the Hitchcock movie, but also, like, Barbarian. 37 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:19,000 Even though I know Barbarian came out afterwards so obviously they were inspired by you 38 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,640 No, no, no, no. While I was editing the film, a dear friend of ours... 39 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:28,760 Showed me the trailer to Barbarian, and he was like, 'Hey, they're doing your movie.' I was like, 'Cool, that sucks.' 40 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,480 I should just uh 41 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:37,160 Should we come up with a whole new subgenre niche of Airbnb, you know, 42 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:43,880 Cabin-in-the-woods-type films? There's Airbnb-in-the-woods-type films, right, falling into that. And, you know, 43 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,920 We did look at things like The Rental um 44 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,400 What was another one? I mean The Rental wasn't an inspiration at all. We're like, uh 45 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,240 We can still do that. It's not totally the same 46 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:58,200 But the biggest inspiration not to get ahead and I know you're no no no get ahead. I was gonna ask 47 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,880 Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? was the main inspiration for this film. 48 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:07,720 Which, you know, I'm gonna really show my butt here: I have never seen... 49 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:13,320 Yeah, I never make the film. I've watched it in college. So do I remember? 50 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,840 Not really, but I remember how witty and banter-y it was. That's what my writer Jonathan Buchanan said. 51 00:04:16,840 --> 00:04:20,200 Bantry that is what my writer Jonathan Buchanan said 52 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:30,360 We were like looking to do a film and I sold my house in LA in July of 2020 and was like wow um 53 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,720 I finally have money and I can make something. And I put it all on black, 54 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:40,440 Basically, which was this horror film so I put everything that I made off of that house into this film 55 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,480 Because I didn't think it was gonna go anywhere. I didn't think I you know is the height of COVID 56 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:51,720 And I thought might as well now or never and so I just rather than saving the money 57 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,600 I just kind of um he had an idea he could fit 58 00:04:54,600 --> 00:05:00,600 The story within the budget constraints and he was like if it's talky if it's more kind of 59 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:09,880 Psycho thriller mystery we can save costs and expense on like big set pieces and kind of you know blood guts and gore and just make it more kind of a mind 60 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:16,520 It's a heavy trip. He's like, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? is that. It's just like one night of people just 61 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,840 Bantering and arguing with each other, using their words as knives. And 62 00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:28,120 I said, I watched the film and then I go, 'I get what you're going for here. Let's do it.' I fell in love with it. And our two antagonists, 63 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:33,080 They're named after Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor, so Richard and Liz. Wow. 64 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,960 And they're set on Albee Road. Oh, nice. 65 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:40,120 Edward Albee wrote the play. Oh, yeah. 66 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,200 That's theater degrees coming in handy. I'm telling you all right 67 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,560 So I want to put a pin in that because that is a really interesting nugget 68 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,480 But I want to ask you first 69 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:56,040 Are there any other movies that you used as inspiration for this, as opposed to just Virginia Woolf, or was it just Virginia Woolf and you're like, 70 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:01,400 'Bing, baby, let's go'? Virginia Woolf for the dialogue, and kind of the 71 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:08,680 Interpersonal connections of, like, in Virginia Woolf it's always two people going after another person. 72 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,160 And in this we kind of kept it 73 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:15,560 There's a lot of scenes with four people in a scene and there's always two people or three people 74 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,800 People ganging up on the other 75 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,080 And so I thought that that was interesting. That was an interesting kind of dramatic motif 76 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:27,000 Um as far as classic horror it would be of course The Strangers because that's just bleak and nihilistic 77 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:33,240 Misery was another one, where it was all contained, even though it wasn't, you wouldn't look at this home 78 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,400 And be like, 'Oh, they're ripping off Misery.' Like, I like the nuttiness of Annie Wilkes. 79 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,120 I'm kind of modeled her after our antagonist Liz 80 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,680 Played by Rosanne Limeres, and 81 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,040 Remember 82 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:51,320 And the merisemic and I you know is giving her like play that cool calculated 83 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:52,920 Unhinged 84 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:54,200 Kathy Bates 85 00:06:54,200 --> 00:07:00,200 Yeah, now that you say Misery I can totally see the the performance connection. There's even some mr. man 86 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:07,960 Going on in the in the movie you hot it that yeah she brings in the mr. man. Yeah, that's a direct grip 87 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:14,680 I just dropped that as an ad-lib. Um, trying to think of anything else. Score-wise, The Shining and 88 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,320 Penderecki and 89 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,800 Jonny Greenwood and 90 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:27,160 Just the isolation of I love the desert aesthetic you know growing up in the southwest 91 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:32,600 Originally the film was going to take place in a cabin in the woods, like outside of 92 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:39,560 Lake Arrowhead, but when I sold my house I was living in a ranch in Twentynine Palms. 93 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,000 And I thought oh this would be a pretty good when I first 94 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,880 You want the whole story? 95 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:47,880 I mean we're here for yeah, yeah 96 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,280 Basically sold the house. I had nowhere else to go 97 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:55,560 So my dog and I moved out. I just wanted to get away. It was in the height of COVID. I wanted to get out of LA 98 00:07:55,560 --> 00:08:00,760 So I moved to Twentynine Palms and I'm staying in this ranch that is on acreage 99 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,360 And it was gorgeous, in this area of Twentynine Palms called Wonder Valley. 100 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,720 And um when I first got there with my dog 101 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:14,520 I was checking out the place lovely mid-century modern kind of ranch-style house. They had a record player. They only had a few 102 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:19,640 Actual albums, and one of which was Guardians of the Galaxy. And I'm not a big fan of that, well, 103 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,440 Nor the soundtrack to it's all they had so I put it on sure 104 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:30,440 I then was just kind of—I rolled myself a joint, poured myself a glass of bourbon, and then went out to gaze under the stars in Wonder Valley. 105 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:36,760 And I'm getting nice and toasty, a little high and a little buzzed, and all of a sudden I hear this faint sound of music 106 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:41,560 Coming from inside the house and I for a moment had this kind of petrified mortified 107 00:08:41,560 --> 00:08:46,440 Feeling of dread that someone was in the house, like I double-booked this place, like someone... 108 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,440 I'm in the wrong house, you know? That's where the Goldilocks thing comes in. And 109 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:56,920 After praying for the aliens to kind of zap me away and I was like no idiot you put on the record player 110 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,000 That's just Guardians of the Galaxy on low... 111 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:03,960 And as like no one's here, but then when Jonathan said he could come up with a one 112 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,560 His biggest inspiration is Tape. I've never heard of Tape. Ethan Hawke. 113 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:11,800 A Linklater indie film from the early 2000s. All right. 114 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,920 It was just three people in a room and he was inspired by that and he he was trying to write something like that 115 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,800 I said well, I have this ranch and I have this idea about like 116 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:26,760 Double Airbnb being booked, and, like, friends trying to meet each other, and someone actually accidentally got murdered, 117 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,440 And the other friend is trying to like cover it up even though it was an accident 118 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:36,120 That's not what happened in the film. He kind of took that and kind of morphed it into his own narrative 119 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:41,320 Which I loved using my space my ranch as kind of the setting 120 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:49,720 And they kind of just went from there. Like, he loved the idea about mistaken identity, double-booking an Airbnb. 121 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,520 And you show up and someone's already there. What do you do? 122 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,920 So did you guys come up with the idea together? 123 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:59,160 Did he come to you with the idea? He went away when I said that I was looking for a film 124 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:00,600 I gave him some 125 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,640 Things in my life that were happening some of the character relationships between the cast the main 126 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:11,480 Three couples that's based partially on my life partially on our lead actress 127 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,760 Carrie, her name is Aly Trasher. That came from her life and friends of hers. 128 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:21,640 She knew certain people like that and then Jonathan's just own twist on it 129 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,000 He created the whole cop situation. He created the killers 130 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,600 Like kind of now those are all part of his 131 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:33,240 Brain and imagination. So we kind of made an amalgamation of that, 132 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:40,520 Wipped it up in a blender and came up with this non-linear motif because he knows but like he he basically did this thing when he was pitching 133 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:45,800 The idea of the film. I didn't know he was writing it, but he had beaten it out on three-by-five index cards 134 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,600 And started like doing this like dog and pony show where it's like you 135 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:55,800 This happens then this happens and it was all color coded so I could track the journey or the arc of each couple and how 136 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:02,440 They died. Because that was the toughest thing filming it, is we did block shooting, and I had to know 137 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:08,600 Multiple who, what, where, when and whys, like, what's my motivation for this, where are we in the story? 138 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,520 That the whole chess game of it all and I had to do that out of order 139 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:18,920 So it was those color coded cards really helpful for me to kind of track and remember where we're at in the 140 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,640 Story. So when you said block shooting, you'd block by location, not by actor? Correct. 141 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:29,480 Just shoot everything out here shoot everything out in the kitchen shoot everything out in the den shoot everything outside 142 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,200 And so it was like constantly like 143 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,600 Having everyone on set and did you do that because of the jib arm? Oh 144 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:41,720 A little bit. I thought that I could. We mismeasured the jib. 145 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:48,520 I had shot a short about like three or four months earlier with this great jib operator name 146 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,160 Sean Mulligan, and he has this 147 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:57,320 20-, 30-foot jib that he can break down to nine feet and put it on dolly track and basically do a faux Technocrane. 148 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:03,960 I guess what they call it is a China dolly, where you have the articulating boom arm and you're on track. Like, I shot a 149 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:11,800 12-minute short film in, like, six hours with this jib because I was able to go anywhere and everywhere and just roll off multiple camera... 150 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,160 Yeah 151 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,560 If I wanted to close up immediately I could push and get it 152 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:22,040 I could swing, I could dolly, and I could boom up and down. Like, I could knock out a shot list that would normally take, 153 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,120 You know, I seem to take three or four hours. I could knock it out in an hour with this thing 154 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:31,960 And he's like how tall are your ceilings? I measured them. I said 10 feet. He's like perfect. I've got a nine foot arm 155 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:38,600 Oh, there's there's a two or three foot jib that you have to give for like the mast or like the back anchor 156 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,600 I don't know what it is, but like 157 00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:48,200 We, you know, I thought that I could shoot this entire, you know, 77-, 83-page script, whatever it was, in seven days, 158 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:53,000 Which is what we allotted for and we did not bake it on that first we shot in an actually 159 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,480 16. There was 11 160 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,920 Principal, or nine principal, and then six kind of pick-up... 161 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:06,840 A seven-day shoot is aggressive. Well, we've been shooting ours, like, I make these little movies with a producing partner of mine, 162 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,760 And they we shoot like seven days 163 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,640 Six days eight days, but it's all handheld and it's real 164 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:22,200 Simple stuff. It's all, you know, talky-talky mumblecore style. Yeah, that's what our film actually ended up becoming, and 165 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,240 Because I was pissed when we 166 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,960 Assembled the jib in the living room and it was like we don't have any give we can only shoot this way 167 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:37,160 We can't give you the full access that you want, and it's like, what? We're screwed, because I had spent three months 168 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:45,160 Shot-designing and storyboarding this with the help of my cinematographer Ryan Valdez, and we wanted a smooth, kind of milky, 169 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,960 Floaty experience and then it kind of turned into a handheld on the shoulder 170 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:56,440 Vérité, improv-y kind of feel. There's moments where it's like there's some cinematic 171 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:03,480 Language or execution, but then a lot of it's just the most interesting part are actually just when it's handheld and it's right up 172 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:10,840 Two three feet away from the actor, you know like that's where the bet is and that's what I've learned as a filmmaker for the past 173 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:16,520 Ten years, is getting closer, closer, closer. Like, establish—don't need to do three or four takes of a wide shot. 174 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,440 Do one or two and then get into the meat into your coverage in my opinion 175 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:27,960 Oh, no, what you want and know you're blocking and and this by the jib not fitting into the space all my blocking went out the window 176 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,240 We, so about 20 years ago, we actually shot a short film 177 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,960 That was all on a jib arm, but we it was that thing you'd go anywhere 178 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,800 It was just like having—it was like having a Steadicam, is the way we were treating it. 179 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:46,040 That's how I treated it on my short film is like with the track with the arm. It's almost just like just go wherever you want 180 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:55,400 Well, so uh one of the things we we like to ask Travis and you've kind of answered this question for us. I mean part of it 181 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:01,880 I always like to ask what the obsession, the pivot and the miracle are on every film, because every film 182 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,880 Involves, doesn't matter how big they are, how small they are, they always involve these three moments. 183 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,360 And so you said that you were 184 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,200 In the desert and you wanted to make a feature or you you had the money 185 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,920 But the piece that I want to ask you about is like what made you take the risk? 186 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:23,400 Especially like July of 2020 like we're all thinking about a mortality. We're all like close to death 187 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:28,440 And you've shaken up your life like it what was it about this idea that you're like yeah 188 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,080 I want to bet literally the house on this. 189 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,640 I'll be alright 190 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:40,840 Yeah, you know that was 38 and I was getting divorced and I was drinking heavily because of the 191 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,480 Pandemic like you could just drink any you didn't have to go out to the bar and no one 192 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:53,560 What's in here? But um, I'm three and a half years sober FYI. I got sober after this film. Congratulations. By the way. Thank you so much 193 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:59,240 Um, I was drinking on set. I don't recommend that. I was just I was depressed. I made it out of spite and hate 194 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,000 I didn't have a good time on the film. Sure. Um, it was mainly just like 195 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:09,080 I thought the world was ending so might as well go out with a bang why save for a future if I could go back in time 196 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,080 I would have tried to shoot it for what I set out to do 197 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:18,200 But then because I was not in a great mindset or state of mind 198 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:23,160 You were just saying yes. Yeah, we can spend that. Yeah, we can do that. Yeah, yeah, whatever. Let's just get it. 199 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,560 You know, you like I was paying for problems to go away 200 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:31,240 Instead of sticking to my guns, being like, let's shoot it for this. Like, I doubled what I wanted to shoot it for. 201 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,520 It's easy to do. Yeah, you're not you're definitely not alone. Yeah 202 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:41,240 On that podcast with Adam Green and Joe Lynch, I said I was drinking every day on set, and like a couple times 203 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:47,080 I like teared up in the morning feeling sorry for myself only in front of trusted people and then Adam Green was like 204 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,480 Oh, so you're a director like you were directing 205 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,160 Well, like welcome to the club. Yeah, right? 206 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,560 It's crazy. It's crazy. Well, how that feels although I will tell you 207 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,280 Most of my career's built on spite. 208 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:06,280 I met so many people when I was coming up when they were like what do you want to do and I was like I want to direct and like how you idiot 209 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,760 And I was like hey fuck you. I'm gonna do this and I 210 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:16,920 You know that that spite really like turns the engine for a long time. It's not healthy, but it turns you know 211 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,080 I don't know I think spite is slightly underrated because I became an actor 212 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,960 Sort of that for the same reason because people like now you can't do that like well hell yeah 213 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,960 I can and became a singer for the exact reason like you can't sing I'm like hell yeah 214 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,960 I can I became a film director for that reason too. We didn't have a film program like I'm gonna 215 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,520 I'm gonna make a movie that people want to watch here at this this college sure did I did I do that? 216 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,120 I don't know but I tried I mean I was motivated by spite a lot 217 00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:47,160 There's still a little bit of spite that drives me now. I want to show people I can make a movie for the next to nothing 218 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,800 Sure got a lot to prove 219 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,880 And my yeah, I had done like I think 12 or 14 220 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,680 Short films and people have been saying I think Matt you would oh yeah 221 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,160 Future do a feature. God do a feature. You know 222 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,880 And a couple of my other friends had always been pushing me that way 223 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,920 I never had I was like how do you get the money for that like and you can do it under $10,000 224 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,320 It's just you have to be a little more crafty and a little more strong willed and 225 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:23,480 Now you're more but like um, I didn't need to spend what I spent on this film and I I'm glad that I went through that to know 226 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,480 And avoid the pitfalls what you do need what you don't need what I'm lacking 227 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:32,040 Which kind of gets into You're Next bit of like right? Yeah, I mean listen 228 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,120 We're gonna we're gonna get to a lot of things, but yeah, go for it 229 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,760 I mean if I could go back and do it again 230 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:41,080 I would pare down the cast, even though Jonathan was adding to his... 231 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,400 It's making it more interesting because it's giving you... And I said he initially called it Found Dead. 232 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:50,200 And it's like what is that from that's cool title and he's like, you know like you're on Yahoo 233 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,200 And you see, like, '8 found dead on the side of the road in Utah,' and it was like, that's cool. 234 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:59,160 So a news article put the number in it that way we can I didn't think like oh if we put the number in it 235 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,160 It's we're gonna fuck with people and make them guess, but like that's kind of what happened 236 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,840 Sure up because I thought like the number eight sounded a it puts us up if you know like 237 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:13,480 In festivals if you have a number in your title you go to the top up. Yeah 238 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,000 So that was my cheat. That's what I was thinking. 239 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,480 Because I had just done a film called Ten Essentials and it was playing festivals, and we were always at the top. 240 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,960 Is it really that good? Oh, no, it's a badical, you know, it was really that good trash 241 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:30,840 Yeah, I like tennis because it is the is my most favorite thing that I've done. I don't know if you can see it 242 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:36,920 I have it because I'm a terrible friend. That is pretty bad. That's pretty bad. Is it available somewhere? Ten Essentials is 243 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:42,440 Um, no, I kind of hid it. It did a festival run. It's on Vimeo, but I'm not gonna say go to... 244 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,040 I'm trying to get off Vimeo. Like, Vimeo's getting off itself. 245 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:52,200 Hopefully. I only use it for my reel and stuff, my professional stuff, when I'm like, hey, 246 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,160 Don't go to my YouTube check out this 247 00:19:55,160 --> 00:20:00,200 I'm trying to move everything over to YouTube to create kind of a one-stop shop of all my short films, 248 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:01,960 Plus 249 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:07,160 Whatever crap I have out there and Ten Essentials was just it was the smartest thing that I've done 250 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:12,040 It was the most kind of measured and disciplined because I rehearsed, rehearsed, rehearsed on that. 251 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:16,760 And I applied that to 8 Found Dead. We had the time to 252 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,280 Do rehearsals and backyards and living rooms and 253 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,600 Give ample time to do it right and I've never really rehearsed 254 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:30,520 Any of my other short films that were just like, here's the script, you read it, okay, let's just workshop it. 255 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,280 I'm gonna say yeah 256 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,280 Yeah, um, and that's what I learned about making a feature film is it is making 257 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:42,040 Like 40 short films every day like you're the constant wave of just like you're not 258 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:49,320 You're not done. You got through yesterday, it's gonna get worse tomorrow. And I had good encouragement on this set from 259 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:50,920 Trusted 260 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:57,640 Friends and veteran actors who are also producers who were reminding sending me little text messages in the morning before we would shoot 261 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,880 Being like doing great. There's no muni yet 262 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:06,360 You know, like, a three-hit guy thing you strive to do. Many directors either yank or quit, storm off. 263 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,920 There was some like some of the cat some of the crew members who weren't friends but just day hires 264 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,800 They were just like hey these conditions are kind of rough dude like 265 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,040 You know and I said 266 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:24,600 What I'll do is work your eight to ten, go to bed, and then anyone else who wants to stay and continue making the movie, 267 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:29,800 We'll go into what was called—and Ryan Valdez, our cinematographer, actually titled it—homie hour. 268 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:34,360 So a lot of the film was actually made in homie hour, where people were there because they like or love me. 269 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,920 We're just like let's get it done. We're down. We're out here. Let's shoot so we would go 270 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,320 12, 14, 16 hours 271 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:47,560 Sometimes and I'm just trying to be mindful of that because it was night shoots and the days were weird and about halfway through 272 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,200 I was like shit. We're only gonna get to like maybe seven 273 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,040 50 274 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,200 60 minutes of content like we're shooting a fucking 275 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,040 70 minute trailer right now 276 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,720 I didn't think that it was gonna be made and I had great encouragement from 277 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:05,240 My writer Jonathan saying we can do it. We push that rock up the hill before on other projects 278 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,520 Laura Buckles, who plays 279 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,720 Officer Blake, 280 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,560 Oh, yeah, uh, fine 281 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,520 Climb yeah, she was the 282 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:22,840 Production manager slash AD, and she was like, 'I've been through this before. You're doing great. You're on... 283 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,800 Pickups. You've heard of pickups? We work with pickups. We'll pick this stuff up.' 284 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:32,840 I picked a lot of things up that didn't require us being 90 miles east of Los Angeles in LA, you know 285 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:38,520 But smart I I love the B-roll in in the movie like they really it really sets the 286 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,240 Sets the scene sets the the tone 287 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,280 Of it in a way that I I was always 288 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:52,360 Of the things I've disappointed in that that I've done in the past is is not focus on B-roll and because you don't think about it 289 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:54,120 When you're in the moment you're like 290 00:22:54,120 --> 00:23:01,800 B-roll. Yeah, it's just like we need the meat, and then you forget that, like, what makes the scene is the garnish. 291 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,960 The be yeah, and with intention my whole thing in this film was especially 292 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:11,960 I think the acting was very good and and my direction with the actors was great because I didn't really direct them 293 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:19,720 They came prepared, you know, and they got it as much as I got it from Jonathan, you know, we were all kind of in sync and 294 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,600 I allowed them to kind of 295 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,280 Carve in or shade their characters however they saw fit. 296 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:35,160 And they would bring up ideas on set, and it was all—we were all going towards, striving for the same thing. 297 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:43,400 I was like I if they had a question or were on the fence about something I'd be like answering what the intent was like 298 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:48,760 What is the motivation behind what are we getting to what are we trying to get out of this scene rather than it just feeling like 299 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,920 Occupying real estate or blank space like have some purpose 300 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,960 And the B-roll was shot purposefully, with intent and focus, 301 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:03,240 Rather than just sitting there to be like look at this like so that's sort of what you know 302 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:08,040 We're running into with these very low budget movies that I'm making is we don't have a lot of time to capture B-roll 303 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,080 But like when you're scrolling through 304 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,720 Stock footage to find some drone shot that matches your location 305 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,400 Because you got nothing else and you kind of need to cut to something 306 00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:26,840 You know it can get kind of depressing. I'm like why didn't we you know, but the intention is the thing if you if you can think about that 307 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,160 Actually when you're writing now I think even encourage people to write their B-roll into their script 308 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,800 Like what do we see why are we seeing it why are we here why you know instead of just 309 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:44,440 Here's the valley. Spielberg's blocking is with intent. Like, he's moving a camera purposefully, not just to show off, at least in my opinion. 310 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,840 And not just to tell you we're in the valley now we're in downtown 311 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:56,040 You know what's just the purpose right this is great. Don't mind me why I go back to the uh my little checklist of things 312 00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:01,320 I assume that the pivot, the big pivot, was obviously the Technodolly into handheld stuff, which, by the way, 313 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:09,320 I couldn't really tell what was on the dolly and not. The camera work is so still and purposeful in the picture that, like, there's times 314 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,280 You can tell that it has a little bit of a wiggle because we're running away from a table being flipped or whatever, but 315 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:15,960 It all 316 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:21,800 Fits cohesively in that—in the stillness of the Airbnb, which I think didn't feel like a pivot to me. 317 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,920 I've felt you know some people use dollies and jibs and some people use handheld together 318 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,640 Does it you know I would never have known if you hadn't mentioned it in the behind the scenes footage 319 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:36,040 Two days or a day before we were set for principal, I called my therapist and I go, 'Well, 320 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,200 We're fucked. The jib doesn't fit and I spent three months storyboarding this.' He goes, 'Hold on.' 321 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,520 You can always get your way out of this like I said the only other thing is handheld and that's just gonna just 322 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:50,440 There's no style to it. It's just like in your face even though I love like things like 21 Grams where it's like it's very handheld 323 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:56,040 And it's very raw and it's that wasn't what I was trying to do. I was trying to do some magical. I was trying to do you know kind of like 324 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,600 Sterile and and 325 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:04,120 Sterile and floaty, and that didn't happen. And he goes, 'Didn't you say that you're with the best cinematographer you know?' 326 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,920 Didn't you say that he's been at every rehearsal? 327 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:14,280 Didn't you say that he knows the script and these actors intimately like you do didn't you say that he's fine with just throwing the 30 pound rig on his shoulder 328 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:19,160 And he's like, 'Use this accident to be like, no, we fucking wanted it,' you know? 329 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,560 And it was a bold choice that was the biggest pivot that and he he pumped me up 330 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:29,080 And I wouldn't have made it through this film without like checking in with him every other day. That's great advice 331 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:37,240 The biggest pivot after that was the music. Oh, I had hired a composer, and we submitted a rough cut to Screamfest, got into that. 332 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,200 And I checked him with my composer saying how are you doing with the score? He's like 333 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,720 I've got like the first 10 minutes. It needs to be done in three weeks. Where are you with the rest of the cues? 334 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,440 He's like, 'I can't do that in three weeks.' And I love this dude, Alexander Julius Wright, and he's a phenomenal 335 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:56,040 Composer, worked at Bleeding Fingers with Hans Zimmer for a little bit, and he couldn't do it. So I 336 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:01,720 Told Jonathan, and the writer's like, we got into Screamfest, but we have 337 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,920 Like 80% of this cannot be exhibited at a festival without I mean it could 338 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:13,000 You technically could play it, but we can't sell it with all this, like, you know, popular music and 339 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,480 Temp music from original soundtracks. And so Jonathan said, 340 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:25,080 'Well, can you do it?' Because I have a background in music, and that's how I met Jonathan, as I was recording his band. I'm a record... 341 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:33,720 And so I was like, yeah, I guess. Like, I can just dust off the keyboard and play with some drones and some sounds and stuff. And it was great that we had that 342 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:39,000 Music in there so I could model off that make it a real kind of minimal the dude 343 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,640 Very German and basic kind of attempt of a score. And, um, I 344 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:51,080 I love Native Instruments. I love this library called Thrill that'll make you sound like you know how to score a horror movie, and just use 345 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:58,440 That ad nauseam while a now I'm scoring another film because of it and I've gotten into beat production again and like recording stuff 346 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:03,080 I use Thrill quite a bit, actually. Thrill? Yeah. That's fun, right? Yeah, yeah. 347 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:09,160 It's fun to use too, if you can figure out, yeah, moving the little thing around. Yeah, there's some spooky vibes. 348 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:16,040 Now I'm Bernard Herrmann. Yeah, and I'll stack them all up on top of each other and just kind of, yeah, it's fun. 349 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,520 I don't understand your 350 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,280 Music composing stuff you jerks. It's like two samples 351 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:29,240 And then there's a little grid in between and you can kind of choose the intensity and the mix, like yeah, 352 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:36,760 You have like violins on one side and like a cello on the other, and you have this little XY wheel that you can move 353 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,720 Like across your mousepad and it starts to 354 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:47,480 Bring in these phrases of instruments and tweak. You can tweak the phrasing, you can tweak the key, you can tweak how much of a blend it is. 355 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:52,520 So you can just really orchestrate your own stuff. Yeah, and you can play it like an instrument almost you can sit there and just kind of 356 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,840 Showing it down. I want it up. I want it down. Cool. That's in that's incredible 357 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:03,640 You know, I saw your credit as as music and I I didn't understand the 358 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:09,640 Level of music that you did Travis. That's incredible. I had 22 tracks in three weeks to get it right 359 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,040 How's the note process on that on the music? 360 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:17,480 It was from the director. I assume that the war actual is a real case of shit. No, no, no 361 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,320 So basically we flipped roles like 362 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,640 Jonathan was watching me edit. I had three editors on it 363 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:30,440 I had Neil Evans who did the first rough cut and then my father took it over and did another pass 364 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:39,400 He didn't change like he he brought it some life and then I did a final pass on it where I added sound design and kind of just a little polish and 365 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,920 Jonathan was over my shoulder for that 366 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,720 So he was kind of playing executive producer to me the editor so like 367 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:49,320 Just so I could stop being director and just be like, 'What do you think? You tell me if I'm geeking out or going over the cliff.' 368 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:55,800 Bring me back in yeah, and same thing happened with the score. I would show him. Does this work? Is this weird? 369 00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:00,760 Is this feel he's like that works feels good to me like feels like a movie, you know nice nice 370 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:07,560 I mean, it's it's really a testament to how filmmaking is a team sport like you can do it all by yourself 371 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,720 But it always helps to have a pair of eyes or extra ears, just somebody else to 372 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:17,720 Bring it back from the ledge if you're going to the ledge. I was actually thinking I was talking to my wife about that actually 373 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,680 It was like why don't I score my own movies because I score people stuff 374 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,400 But I don't like to score my own movies 375 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,760 And it's because I don't have that person going you know what even when it annoys the hell out of me when I'm doing it 376 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,640 They're like, yeah, I don't know if I like to can try something else 377 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:37,240 But I won't do that to myself. I'll just endlessly wonder if what I'm doing is what I should be doing 378 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,640 You know, like I've checked—a heat check—to be like, 'Does this sound good?' Like, I mean, 379 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,600 I like what I like but I want to know if it resonates with you 380 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:50,120 And I think that's why we make films for the connection of like did that plan right and the choices are endless 381 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,840 And so I need somebody to kind of narrow it down for me 382 00:30:52,840 --> 00:31:01,720 Yeah, he was very open to me giving notes on the script like because he did toss it into a blender and and made it non-linear as fuck 383 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,760 And I would say can we go harder this way? 384 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,640 Can we soften this area and he was very amenable to the notes and I tried to do that when I'm 385 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:15,960 Editing with him is just kind of serving the story and to where we're both landing on yeah, that's it 386 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,000 You know that's when you know you have something that it's shared 387 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,360 Hold on, hold on. Should we talk about the sound? 388 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,640 Yeah, I mean what or did you have something else you wanted? 389 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,680 No, I wanted to ask what the miracle was but we could just start always the miracle 390 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:34,120 Yeah, is there a miracle on this set because every there's always that moment when you're making the movie where it's like 391 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,800 This shouldn't work and then something happens that like 392 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,200 Like 393 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,800 It's a once-in-a-lifetime thing. Was there that moment that you can think of? 394 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,360 Yeah, it wasn't on set. Does it have to be on set? 395 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:47,400 No, I don't think so 396 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:54,520 Oh, it was when we showed up to the—getting into Screamfest on a rough cut was amazing, because I was making the movie to get into Screamfest. 397 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,800 I've been to Screamfest. I know that Screamfest broke 398 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,120 Paranormal Activity, it broke Human Centipede. It's... 399 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,840 John Carpenter was awarded a 400 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:11,880 Lifetime achievement or honor, you know, an honorary... I had seen him posing with this really cool golden 401 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,920 Skull, and it was like, that seems nice. And it's like the oldest horror film festival in the United States. 402 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,000 Denali people show up. It's at the Chinese theater. It that'd be great 403 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,480 That was kind of like a goal to try to like 404 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:29,480 Finish the film to submit to them and then when we got into that I was like blown away that I was like the film's working 405 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:34,200 Like got enough of a rough cut and then when it was a packed 300 person audience 406 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,440 And I had people that I don't know coming up to me saying we're gonna buy your film 407 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:46,360 I was like what oh we're doing that okay, that's incredible. Yeah showed up to the the award ceremony party 408 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:52,280 Just to schmooze, just to get drunk and schmooze, try to find a sales agent, try to find a lawyer, blah, blah, blah. 409 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,320 And as I'm getting like shit faced in the back of Jonathan 410 00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:01,800 We hear our name called for best director my name called and I'm like what I don't win. And I'm like 411 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:07,960 I don't win like I come in second or third and Jonathan goes absolutely bonkers and he's normally um 412 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:14,920 The adult of our friendship and like you know kind of just look low key in mild mannered and he's like 413 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,640 Like I can hear him. It's like that embarrassing 414 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,280 I'm like 415 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,840 Let me just and then as we're like being the loud kind of obnoxious 416 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:30,120 Drunks off in the corner being like can you believe this is what happened? We hear our name called again for best picture 417 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,760 Then like we both kind of shut up. We're like we were speechless and we were like we didn't show up here 418 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,080 We didn't make this movie to win awards or to be celebrated or lauded. 419 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,720 We just wanted to get it out there. We wanted to um just say that we did it 420 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,200 Yeah, or if it got theatrical, which, you got a three-week theatrical window. 421 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:53,400 I didn't care if it got streaming. I just wanted to say that finally after setting out to be a filmmaker 422 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,240 I did a feature and yeah, this mission accomplished and um 423 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,200 Yeah, it was that was my miracle month 424 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,440 I mean, that's a pretty good pretty good miracle. I mean getting into 425 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,320 Get into film fest is one of those like really 426 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:12,440 Hard things that you don't quite realize how hard it is to get in 427 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,320 To not only get into one that you are angling for and then to also win is 428 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,800 Is incredible. It's the dream 429 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:25,800 It got into like its first three out of four, and that never happened with any of my short films, and then Dark Sky 430 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:31,560 Bought it and then they started placing it in festivals. It was like that. Yeah, I mean, that's... 431 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,000 I mean, that's that's we got into a fast because 432 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,400 We got a sales agent and the sales agent was like oh, we're gonna make sure it's in 433 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,840 It's in a good festival, but we had applied forever and just it request 434 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,160 Didn't get into Cinequest. Yeah, you were telling me about Cinequest. I always wanted to play Cinequest. 435 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:54,760 I didn't get a chance to submit it to Cinequest. I remember you had a great time. Yeah, I mean, it's a film fest for filmmakers. It's incredible. 436 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,400 Um, but 437 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,560 Anyway, um, but when I hear to talk about your rewards and your 438 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,360 Your 439 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,440 Trials on set, although I'm glad to hear them because they're always good to hear but 440 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,840 The 441 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,560 Thing that we'd like to really dig in with you about is the sound design 442 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,960 Now it's fairly common for indie filmmakers to wear multiple hats 443 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,760 And I feel like every other indie filmmaker is a writer director 444 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,720 But what struck me about 8 Found Dead was your prominent credit as a sound designer. 445 00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:32,440 Sound next to the post-production is the element of filmmaking that that is so important 446 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,000 But is also the last thing on anybody's mind when they're making a movie 447 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,640 So try to say I just wanted to talk to you about 448 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,680 Why sound design is so important to you tips and tricks that you learned and anything that help 449 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:50,440 People keep in mind as they're designing a soundscape because I think one of the reasons we're doing this podcast 450 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:56,040 Especially for me is that for lower budget filmmakers they often skip 451 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,080 Stuff like sound design and they don't have the budget to hire big sound designers 452 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:08,280 And so it's nice to show how important sound design is in a movie like 8 Found Dead. Like, you hit them with sound design 453 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,800 Like right away 454 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,800 And when you hit them was so hard with sound design in the first couple minutes 455 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,600 Then people trust the movie it's sort of you know 456 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,880 That's why your first scene is so important. They trust that they're going to hear something and you're gonna be able to understand 457 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,120 What's going on? It's not gonna be garbage. It was at least crafted well even if they don't like the movie 458 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:31,160 Yeah, it would it elevates the quality in a way that like you can it can be shot in 459 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,720 8k and be 460 00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:41,800 You know like broadcast it on the dome and but if it has shitty sound it's gonna feel shitty, but yeah frame one 461 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:47,320 Of 8 Found Dead sounds great, and you're like, oh, this is somebody who knows what they're doing. 462 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,400 And it's this invisible 463 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,600 Craft so what what start because you 464 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:58,520 Sound designed? Sound design? Sound designed? It's not—that's good English. Yeah, I... 465 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,480 Know words good. 466 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,600 And so Travis I know that you have a career as an editor is that where it started or did it start somewhere else? 467 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:12,280 It started before that. It started with just playing guitar at 14 and using Cubase at 468 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,200 17, 18, and then graduating to Pro Tools, and just being like... 469 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,760 I get um 470 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:26,280 I do like—like my dad's a photographer, and he gave me a 35-millimeter camera, and I started getting into 35 and visuals and all that. 471 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:27,800 I do love visuals 472 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:35,560 But I also get a lot of anxiety with visuals, and sound to me is extremely important. It's half the picture and it evokes the mood. 473 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,320 And 474 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:43,000 Like you guys so eloquently said like if you can have the most beautiful camera or image in the world 475 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,000 But if the sound is 476 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,480 Like you're out. I'm done like 477 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,600 Nothing tells me something's cheap without good quality well recorded audio 478 00:37:52,600 --> 00:38:02,840 And furthermore, I like I've been sound designing probably since like 2004 or 5 and it's gone hand in hand with my editing 479 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:08,200 And I've utilized my background in Pro Tools when I'm picture editing and so I'll deliver a rough cut 480 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,600 That's already kind of like got a base sound design and then I'll enhance it further in Pro Tools 481 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,160 But I also 482 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:16,840 And 483 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:22,760 As I'm getting older, I'm starting to realize the importance of silence and the dynamics of silence with really 484 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,320 Powerful sound and 485 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:26,520 Um 486 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:31,080 I'm trying to practice more of that with my intention of sound and and sound 487 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:37,160 Especially, I learned this from a sound designer, Jeffrey Pitts. 'What is your intention with the sound? Like, sit and listen for a second.' 488 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,800 What do you hear? There's like the rumble or the hum of the refrigerator. 489 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,320 There's the buzz of the light. There's a car driving by there's 490 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,240 You know the crickets outside and really try to 491 00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:56,920 Immerse yourself in the scene so that you can give an experiential experience to the viewer, so that it feels authentic and it feels real. 492 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,560 I had Jeffrey who has credits. He's Adam Wingard's sound designer. Oh 493 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,960 And he became a friend because I was watching the remake of Blair Witch. 494 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,320 I loved the sound design of the creature so much. I was staying through the end of the credits, 495 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,400 And I find his name in the credits and I cold-call him on Facebook. I direct-message him. 496 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,400 And he's like, 'I live in Van Nuys. We can meet at The Local Peasant.' 497 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:22,840 I'll share anything that you want to know and I'd already been known as like a guy that loves sound and can do sound design 498 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,720 But like this dude's a master and like he takes 499 00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:29,560 My stuff and he goes further because it's his sole job 500 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:34,600 I'm a picture editor and a sound designer and a director and when you're doing all of that you're like you can't pay all 501 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,320 You can't give a hundred percent focus to each 502 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,680 Area or facet right when I'm sound designing. I'm not I'm relaxed. I'm not 503 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:50,600 Overthinking. I'm not feeling anxious. I'm just experimenting. I'm playing in the sandbox and Jeffrey when I showed him this film 504 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,920 He gave a critique, and he threw me a bone. He did a couple scenes with me. 505 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,040 So I'll show you what I would do here. I'm not gonna do it for you 506 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,440 Take it back to the lab and work on it 507 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:06,520 But there's a scene in the beginning. It's a basic apartment, and it's when Sam and Dwayne, 508 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:13,960 We first meet them, and she's like, 'I need you to model. I need you to try the CBD gum. It's for, you know, PMS.' Yeah. 509 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:19,880 Um, it's a frustrating moment for him and it was shot downtown and it's like okay, you shot this downtown 510 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:28,840 The dude is aggravated the chick is pissed like what what's the story with the sound he taught me to think about the sound the story of the sound 511 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,800 Which answers the story of the scene and I was like well, you know living downtown 512 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,520 I couldn't get away from sirens because I was fighting sirens, so we put in a siren. 513 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:45,800 I like I couldn't get away from drilling and jackhammers like let's put that in to just enhance the agitation of the moment 514 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,600 There's another scene where Sam her big secrets revealed by the killers 515 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,400 Um, and she gets up and she storms off and he's like where did she go? 516 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,960 Well, I don't know 517 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:03,000 He's like well she went to the bathroom. We know that and later scenes so let's have a door open 518 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:09,160 Slam and then turn up faucet that's distant in the background so that you could hear 519 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,240 Life is happening. He's like keep things alive even if it's not 520 00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:22,760 Big and in your face. Like, have nuance there that keeps the viewer interested in things happening. And I learned this as an editor in reality, 521 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,240 Which is like even if you have a slow 522 00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:32,840 Emotional scene have something interesting that's going on in the background or around the scene that keeps people 523 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:39,400 That doesn't allow them to tune out. So you're like a duck sitting on top of the water, but your feet are kicking underneath. 524 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,640 You know like you're just constantly working 525 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:48,200 Well, so I don't know if you've found this but I find this because I'm doing a lot of the post-production on all these like 526 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:54,120 I'm doing all the stuff for these movies that I'm working on um and I'll do the edit and it'll play and I know I have to 527 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,680 You know clean up the audio because the audio is not optimal 528 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:02,840 And I'll clean up the audio and I'll get all the the dialogue edited and all that stuff and then the life just falls through the floor 529 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,920 Just dead like 530 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:09,080 So you have to add so much life back into the movie and I you know 531 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:14,680 I used to fight against full M&E tracks just because my movies weren't—they're not getting distribution. 532 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,480 You know note who's gonna need a full M&E track it takes months 533 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,440 Sometimes to finish these things, but it's like I need those details of chairs being pulled out 534 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:28,680 Need somebody walking into the other room and opening a refrigerator, or, you know, because that's what I had on the scratch track. 535 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,120 It was just there 536 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,240 Because that's what people were doing and now that I've cleaned up the dialogue 537 00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:37,480 It's not there anymore and I need to put it back right where else the movie falls to the floor 538 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,920 Well, and it's not just uh it's not just room tone. It's like 539 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,560 It's adding the intentionality of it. Yeah 540 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:51,880 You know Travis you said you said you had to find the story of the sound what can you unpack that a little bit like what does that mean? 541 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,360 So, in that scene in the apartment, it's the two people talking. 542 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:03,000 She's trying to do a a story bit. He's just frustrated that she's not paying attention and doing whatever 543 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:10,520 Yeah, and it's great, but you know typical story would be you know an inciting incident some kind of twist and then a resolution 544 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,640 How do you do that in sound? It's just more of an embellishment 545 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,160 It's like, to show and enhance his frustration, 546 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:21,640 I could just have blanketed that scene with just ambient New York traffic 547 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:26,040 Then just tucked it and kept it like negative 20 dB, and it's like, well, there's ambience in there. 548 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:33,240 But he's like find the color and like the color is like the fire engine going by right as he's getting super pissed 549 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:35,240 But it's so subtle you don't realize it 550 00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:43,560 It's kind of like sometimes empathic phrasure a dearly beloved colleague of ours of course he finds a perfect pocket of silence that he placed the most 551 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,040 Exquisite, excellent crow caw. 552 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:51,000 He's done for the day and it's so subtle and like it just landed or a dog bark 553 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:56,200 The wind was musical in this film. Like, I had certain wind that I would use for flash... 554 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:04,200 And it was derived from like The Shining they have a very muffled angry wind that's always constantly creating anxiety and 555 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:05,880 Pressure 556 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,880 That's like buried and muffled 557 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:13,640 That like it it just enhances kind of the drama and kind of the agitation of the scene 558 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,640 I know that I also am a big fan of Dunkirk, which 559 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,360 Dunkirk is 560 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,640 Christopher Nolan's or in a sound design he wanted it 561 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:30,760 So he uses something called the Shepard tone, which is a tone that goes up and up and up and up and up and up and never resolves, 562 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:37,480 But just keeps recycling itself over and over and over. And I thought that was parallel to what Jonathan was doing in the story of, like, 563 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,000 Get in get in late get out early and 564 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,120 Have have each scene move us to the next theme 565 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,920 Even though it's not chronological, but it's just 566 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,800 Propelling the story forward 567 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,560 And I thought I wanted to do that with sound. 568 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,360 So whereas you think you're done, but you're not, it just ratchets 569 00:44:54,360 --> 00:45:00,040 The tension a little more, so you're always uneasy and nervous, feeling like you're just climbing this roller coaster 570 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,000 With no sense of relief sure sure I hope that ends 571 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,360 No, that that does that does it actually 572 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:13,160 It sounds like it's punctuation on on the emotion 573 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:20,200 In a way that that's not necessarily a music sting I have a tendency to just isn't about me 574 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,760 But I would tendency to use the sound design as a score 575 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:29,560 Sometimes, you know, I will get, like, 'Stay away from my shit, man!' from the composer. Oh, yeah. 576 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,600 Yeah, that's why it's nice when the composer and the sound designer are the same person 577 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:37,000 Because yeah, that does and sometimes you'll be like I left that blank and I'm like it's empty 578 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,840 Like well, that's the composer's job right like I'm trying to stay out of their lane 579 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,520 And now I'm getting in trouble because this is dead come on 580 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:50,440 So you know you have to really communicate with that composer when when they're not the same person 581 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:57,240 Yeah, and I guess, like, what is that conversation like? When do you decide when to use music and when to use sound to help ratchet up your 582 00:45:57,240 --> 00:46:04,680 Emotion? I mean, it came, like, after this film. I've done, I think, four or five films since, just as an editor. 583 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:09,800 And it's attractive to people, and they know that I also sound design as well, because that saves the cost, of course. 584 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:15,960 And so I was hired on a film after this called Are You There?, which is also picked up and distributed through Dark 585 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:22,680 Sky Films. And the director, Kim Noonan, trusted me because he knew me as an editor and as a sound designer to kind of, like, 586 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:28,920 He would spot with his composer and then anywhere he felt like I could take it to a certain space 587 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:34,360 He would allow me to play in there now the composer on that was like I wanted to play music here 588 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:39,480 And I came and I would discuss, like, 'Kim, this is your movie. You decide where you want music to happen.' 589 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,680 You know to me and I get that the composer is the heartbeat of the film 590 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:49,160 But, like, you're driving the bus, and Kim stood up for me as the sound—the lowly, meek sound designer—to be like, 591 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,000 Don't use your slip there, you know 592 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,680 And it gives it a nice kind of dynamic and an ebb and flow where 593 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:59,800 Like sound is heightened when there is no sound and I went deaf 594 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:05,720 In June of 2020, I lost the hearing in my left ear in the two-to-six-K range, 595 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:11,560 And that's like human speech in like jets and babies crying and stuff and everything's not but powerful focus 596 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:17,240 Wild. And I thought it was a cruel joke being a sound designer. Like, I guess I'm a... now, you know? 597 00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:18,520 Oh, no 598 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,920 And the hearing did come back but being 599 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,480 Slightly deaf for those three weeks it 600 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:28,680 Silence is deafening and it hurt it's heavy silence is very heavy and 601 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:33,640 And I want to try to do more of that in the future. It's like play with 602 00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:38,680 The color of blankness, you know of of silence. It can be oppressive 603 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:44,600 Like my wife and I moved out to a remote lake cabin for a little bit of our lives 604 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,640 And the first week I couldn't sleep 605 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:52,360 Because you could right you could feel it you could feel the silence. It was so quiet 606 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:58,360 After we had lived in Los Angeles it was so quiet that it was just you could hear your blood in your ears 607 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,440 It was like being in some kind of chamber, hyperbaric chamber or something. 608 00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:07,800 Yeah, if you go into a studio that's acoustically treated sometimes it's it hurts because it's so quiet 609 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:15,080 Crazy. This is great. Uh listen, I have I have real nuts and bolts questions because these are the things that that I always run into is 610 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:20,920 Where do you get your sound effects from? Are you recording all those? Are you stealing them from somewhere? Do you already have a library, or what are you doing? 611 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,360 Some of it. On this one I did a lot of re-recording, mixing, 612 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:29,720 Especially doors door knobs. I was like I have a nice chef 613 00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:31,400 XMC 614 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,400 XMC I forget the model 615 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:39,400 It's a really nice kind of alternative to a synthesizer for 16 shock and might bet a lot of sound designers to use for 616 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,840 Just collecting real world sounds. I do a lot of like 617 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:51,320 Worldizing. Which, worldizing is if you want to put—if you have a music cue playing on the radio in a car, 618 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:56,680 Go into the car and record that sound rather than just putting an EQ plug-in on it. 619 00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:01,240 You know, and it sounds like the perspective, it becomes a realer... 620 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,440 Yeah, if I had a record player in here and I would just go mic the cabinet and re-mic it 621 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,000 Um 622 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:15,800 It's re-recording that it's um I use something called Soundly which is great. I use something else. Oh yeah 623 00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:21,800 Soundly is phenomenal. I also then will take those sound effects and, so that they're a little more 624 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:28,760 Kind of, I guess, bespoke to the project, will pitch-shift them, EQ them, layer them, 625 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,160 Uh play with a lot of or reverb is great and 626 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:39,160 Low-pass and high-pass filters will shape. I love something called a plug-in called FutzBox. 627 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:44,280 It's a speaker emulator. 628 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,840 Um I do 629 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:56,760 Within some of the synthesizers that I have I can do a lot of sound design within there which is like weird textures that are both granular and lush 630 00:49:57,720 --> 00:50:05,960 Um I can kind of take any you can take any signal like a signal generator and you can tweak it and shape it into anything that you want through 631 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:10,520 Like synthesizers, like just like Moog-style, like 632 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,080 Oscillation and 633 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,960 Warping and degrading. I love degrading stuff. 634 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,880 Um, 635 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,000 I like re-amping and re-miking things, as I mentioned. 636 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:26,680 Did you have a lot of time to do because we never had the time to do any why uh you know get any sound on 637 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:33,560 Location location sound yeah, yeah, and I was just using my iPhone sometimes because it was that's what I noticed when I was living out there is like 638 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:38,200 How unique inherently unique it was um the kind of 639 00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,120 Insects that are out there, the sparseness of the wind. The wind is really scary 640 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:49,160 At night especially like it's really hollow and empty and and just unforgiving um 641 00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:55,960 My actor Eddy Acosta, who's a friend of mine, he came up to visit me in the ranch before we had filmed, 642 00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:01,320 And before we even had the idea and he's like why'd you move out here dude did you move out here to die like 643 00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:12,360 So then again, for indie filmmakers, the advice would be to capture some location sound if you can. 644 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:18,920 Because I know that you know we we filmed a movie up in wine country and uh you know it doesn't sound the same 645 00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,120 When you try to go on Soundly, you're like, I need a sound of a countryside. 646 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:26,040 It's like well, I don't need a sound of a countryside in Japan or type right or tropical 647 00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:30,280 Yeah, like I need I need Los Angeles or you know I need California at least 648 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:35,880 I want to hear the birds that we hear in California and you can't always get that stuff which is kind of well 649 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,800 So my my um 650 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,480 My sound designer guru, mentor Jeffrey Pitts, 651 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,080 When when I first met him and I was trying to learn the tricks of the trade 652 00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:50,520 He'd done, you know, Blair Witch, he'd done A Horrible Way to Die, he'd done You're Next. 653 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,240 I've seen done um 654 00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:59,000 The Grudge, and I'm looking up this show. I think it was Once—or it was, what was the show on ABC? 655 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,320 It was like a take on Grimm's fairy tales. Oh, wait... 656 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:09,880 Everything in one spot of time. Hey, I think it was that he he wanted to test me out and see what kind of sounds I had 657 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:17,080 Because the big first sound designers to have their own sounds right like their own library to kind of stand apart or be 658 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:23,080 Unique, and he wanted to see what kind of fight sounds I had, what kind of hits, impacts and whooshes, 659 00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:27,320 And rustles and he was putting me to task on like 660 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:33,880 'Hey, on that grab there, you're using vinyl. Now this guy's wearing cloth. Like, on that door opening, 661 00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:39,400 You just repeated that front door and you put it on the back door like if if you don't have a different 662 00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:44,040 Unique sound, pitch-shift it a couple of semitones up so it sounds different, 663 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:48,760 And gives it character like those guys think it's in the way a colorist thinks about coloring 664 00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:54,840 Informing or enhancing the story sound is coloring and enhancing the story through its choices 665 00:52:54,840 --> 00:53:01,320 And through its authenticity and like color we take sound so much for granted. Yeah, that's great 666 00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:05,320 Listen, I don't have any more questions Robb. Do you have any more questions? I'm sure I have a ton 667 00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,920 But we know can't be here forever. I mean we could we could be here for as long as you want 668 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:13,000 But uh we Travis this is uh wonderful. I mean I 669 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:18,520 I purport to understand sound design and post-production and I've learned so much. 670 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:24,840 It's incredible. Thank you so much. I would shout out Jeffrey Pitts and all the wonderful sound designers 671 00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,320 Still doing films 672 00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:32,280 But I just like to play yeah, they sound like an editor who does sound design. I know a little bit about that 673 00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:38,120 But still I mean just just the idea of the nuance and the 674 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,640 The value that sound can bring like there's the 675 00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:47,480 You said it earlier and I like to say it all the time too is that sound is half the picture and you know a lot of times 676 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,600 You think sound's just half the picture. Oh, just make sure you have room tone and make sure you 677 00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:55,640 Yet hear the alarm clock in the corner, but not the intentionality of yeah 678 00:53:55,640 --> 00:54:02,440 Make sure each part of the room sounds different make sure that if somebody leaves the room can still kind of hear what they're doing and 679 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:08,280 And dialing in those sounds, and not so much in a flashy way, just in a world— 680 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,320 Worldly kind of measured way. But on 681 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:15,720 The heels of that, and I'll say this is the last thing I'll say, is, like, Edgar Wright, a huge influence for me, 682 00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:20,200 And he does it in a brash kind of open way like if you mute his films 683 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:25,160 They don't have the same impact he puts a lot of as no he's known as a cool flashy 684 00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,040 Fluid camera movement type dude 685 00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:32,440 But he also puts a lot of time and work into his sound design and and those sounds kind of 686 00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:37,880 Motivate or inform the camera movement and they're like they're in your face and they're like part of the story 687 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:41,080 So, well, and you can see it at the beginning of your movie. 688 00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,600 There's a very yeah a great sort of some stuff 689 00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:48,920 Montage-y stuff happened. I didn't know if it worked, but Ryan and Jonathan signed off on it, 690 00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:54,680 So I was like okay, I'll leave it you know one reviewer was like why the fuck is he doing all these flashes in a car drive like it's like 691 00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:56,520 All right, because it's cool, 692 00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:02,840 Damn it. I mean you do reality so you know this but like it's amazing how many times a director wants to hear a camera move 693 00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,240 Which is weird I need to hear that camera move a little bit 694 00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:09,480 Like throwing a punch, you don't hear any kind of whoosh, but we've just been so trained to think 695 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,120 It sounds better if you have the... Yeah. 696 00:55:13,240 --> 00:55:16,760 Yeah, I just thank you for letting me be on of course. Yeah, of course. Thank you for coming on 697 00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,800 But Travis I've one last question for you 698 00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:24,280 You kind of answer this at the start, but I just want to see if you have any other any other answer 699 00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:29,560 But if you go back and warn yourself about one thing with this whole movie that you made what would you 700 00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:34,680 Warn yourself about make it for what you want like have an intention like don't just do it 701 00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,120 Because you think it's the end of the world to make it for the price that you want to make it at 702 00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:43,160 Stick—be stalwart and stick to that. Three, smaller cast, better. Sure. 703 00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:49,640 Although four found dead doesn't sound as cool as it isn't it is hard, but at least I would have money in my bank account right? 704 00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:56,040 That's it's it's the problem with the horror movies that you want the body counts and so you add it to up the cast 705 00:55:56,040 --> 00:56:02,920 John was right so like he makes it more interesting and it gives the audience the opportunity to kind of play clue and guess at home 706 00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:06,120 Yeah, so before we let you go Travis 707 00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:12,440 Where can people find you on the interwebs and more importantly where can they find the movie? 708 00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:17,560 The movie's streaming on Amazon Prime right now and it's also on Tubi. Great place. 709 00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:23,560 I love Tubi. Tubi is a great home for a lot of independent filmmakers. World—make—fans. Yep. 710 00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:28,040 Ton of content, and if you get past the weird-place ads, you're fine. 711 00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:35,240 And then I'm at 'the Travis Greene' on Instagram. You are. But you have a physical release on disc, right? 712 00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:42,120 On disc, yeah. We had a DVD, Blu-ray, and we actually did a signing at Dark Delicacies, rest in peace. 713 00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,720 The news on yeah, I was there. I got my 714 00:56:45,720 --> 00:56:51,640 My shit signed by everybody in the cast and you it was pretty awesome. We've been long 715 00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:56,440 Procelses. I missed that place. Well, thank you again Travis 716 00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,720 This has been wonderful as the best 717 00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:06,840 The best it could have been the you're the best guest who wasn't us. We've ever had yeah like in terms of our guest list 718 00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,120 You are number one nice and not just because you're the first 719 00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,920 I actually best of like and hopefully it grows and 720 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,760 I'll be I'll tune in and I'll subscribe. There you go 721 00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:23,320 Well, and that about does it for us. If you have any questions about filmmaking, movies in general, please write us at 722 00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:30,920 Indiefilmlodge@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you, and we may feature your question on a future show. 723 00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:35,080 And in the meantime, tell your friends about us, and remember the only thing holding you back is you. 724 00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,720 So get out there and shoot your feature. I'm Robb. I'm Matt. And we'll see you next time. 725 00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:49,720 [Music] 726 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,672 [Music]